Fixin tires for ice

bh

Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Messages
158
Likes
0
#1
I was wondering what would be the best for riding on ice. I am planning on using sheet metal screws and my regular tires(bridgestone 401&402). What lenght of screws do people use. Oh yeah I only need them to hold for a day or two and I don't wanna take my tires off. I need some help fast please. Its gonna get warm saturday.
 
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
853
Likes
0
#3
7/16 or 1/2 inch screws are good, just measure your lugs to make sure. Regular sheetmetal screws will work...but the kold cutters are way better. A friend on mine puts the kold cutters in the fall, takes them out in spring and rides all summer with the same tires (minus the lugs he chunked off)
 

JTT

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 25, 2000
Messages
1,407
Likes
0
#4
Are you looking at actual ICE riding or winter trail riding? For trail riding the sheet metal screws or little Cold Kutters will work fine, but expect to loose many as they will tear out quite easily (particularly the sheet metal ones).

If you are looking at actual ice riding, then you'll need something a little more "burly". If you go to my gallery, you'll see a couple of recent ice shots that I posted (please ignore the "goon" form, it was a bad day :joke: ).

Traction on pure ice with a good tire setup is unbeleivable...dragging footpeg is not unusual...but this takes BIG screws, multiple liners and alot of effort. The nice thing is, once the tires are built, they are good for many years on pure ice, just take them off in the spring, and put them back on in winter. Just don't make any runs on hard ground or such or you'll ruin them in a hurry.

I'm no expert on building these, but have built more than a few, so if this is what you want, I may be able to help out if you need it. :thumb: You can also buy, pre-made ice racing tires, but the price is up there with the Trelly's.
 

70 marlin

Mi. Trail Riders
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
2,963
Likes
0
#5
Kold kutter are the best screws. Regular sheet metal screws don't last! And there not much cheaper, in the long run. I run 1/2 in the front & 5/8 in the rear.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Messages
190
Likes
0
#6
This winter, I put screws in my bike for the first time.

Rear:
Using my slightly worn (one knob edge was rounded, but the knobs were still full height) Maxxis Maxx Cross IT rear, I was able to put in 528 5/8 inch cold cutters...yes 528. That's four screws in most of the center knobs, and at least two in the outer knobs. There was no penetration to the inside of the tire, so the tube was safe (I checked while I had the tire off the rim, but I installed most of the screws with the tire on the bike and full of air).

Front:
In the front (well worn Dunlop, intermediate terrain, not sure what tire), I used 260 #8 sheet metal screws. I believe that's one per knob. On the front, I never had the tire off, but I measured the lugs to make sure the screws wouldn't penetrate - the tire never went flat.

Summary:
On bare ice the traction at the rear tire was UNBELIEVABLE! Meaning: 100% traction. On the front, the traction wasn't nearly as good as the rear, but still respectable - although I could easily lock the front tire at any speed - stoppies just weren't happening, and I didn't trust high speed cornering. With probably only two or three hours of riding on them, almost all of that on a lake, there wasn't a single screw pulled out.

Anyway, long story short - dedicated ice screws in large quantities do much better than (undersized) sheet metal screws in smaller quantities. (no kidding, eh?) I definitely plan to go to real studs in the future though...it just takes a much larger $$ investment. Whatever path you choose, getting traction in the slippery stuff is really fun. Enjoy!
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2000
Messages
378
Likes
0
#8
I love to see pictures of your icetires but i cant. I have made a bunch of different icetires during the last 5 years. It began as i wanted to ride on the lake but i couldnt afford real studded tires so i had to make a pair myself. Even up to date the tires still doesnt cost much more than a used tire and another $10-$20 bucks of some sort of metal. Some tires have worked really well and i have had alot of fun while other have been not very fun and a waste of time but i have always wanted to try new methods as i think it can always be better.

Here you can see the tire i have on right now: http://www.sharexperiences.com/picforum//displayimage.php?pos=-2817

Its really good traction on pure ice and even with 15cm snow on top of it. I ran a 14/39 gearing today and i could feel quite a bit gyro forces when going 100km/h+ :) Its not that it limits me but its a bit harder to steer at high speed and the best way is to slide to turn sharper(and the most thrilling)

Its quite a bit of work but i wouldnt mind spending weeks building icetires that will make it possible to ride another few months a year.

I have made other tires aswell like this one: http://www.sharexperiences.com/picforum//displayimage.php?pos=-2818
Not as much work involved as you can screw the screws from the outside. In the beginning it was very good traction even if it was strange. The harder i rode the better traction it had, when i backed off the throttle for the corners it went a bit slippery. I believe its caused by too little pressure on the screws to penetrate the ice. After a while the screws began to fall out and i decided to add more screws to spread the load and it worked, the screws didnt fall out anymore but in other hands the performance went down. Its not always more is better. I believe its caused by the bigger area of metal that have to be pushed down into the ice, it no longer enought weight on each screw to penetrate the ice enought. Well its a very fun tire cause its so easy to slide controlled as much as i want and its easy to replace the screws when worn out due to driving on the road to and from the lake(s).
 

JTT

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 25, 2000
Messages
1,407
Likes
0
#9
WOW! Pyro, that spiked tire looks scary :ohmy:

Why can't you see the pic? Can anyone else see it? :think:
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Messages
190
Likes
0
#10
I can't see it either. It's because we're not subscribers...it's one of the perks that only subscribers can enjoy. All the more reason to pay the dues, this is a great site with tons of info all concentrated and organized into one wonderful place...man, I've got to get around to subscribing!
 

JTT

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 25, 2000
Messages
1,407
Likes
0
#11
Sorry, I thought the Galleries were only limited to subscribers. Didn't realise you couldn't see attached pics either. Send me your e-mail by PM and I'll send you the pic, if you want.
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2000
Messages
378
Likes
0
#13
70 marlin said:
Pyro that's one meen tire! I bet thats tough on plastic?
I dunno really, i havent done any big jumps as i mostly ride on the lake and its quite flat :think: I havent tried it on the motocross track as its been closed. I havent though about it but maybe it will rip the plastic if im bottoming cause the studs are about one inch long.

JTT i dont think i can send PM's either. I love to see your tires, you could send to patrik@myhre.org and i would be happy.
 

bh

Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Messages
158
Likes
0
#14
Thanks everyone for the response. I was planing to ride on our frozen pond but things didnt work out right. About a week ago the ice was about 4" and it was supposed to stay cold but one day it got to about 35 so a bunch of snow around the pond melted and filled about 3" of water on top of the ice so now there is only about 2" of ice one top. So no ice riding for me now. :whiner: Next winter I plan on making a good tires to ride ice and frozen ground. I hate to just put 1/2" screws in and lose them all on my track. And it wont stay frozen too much longer now so no time to make a good set.