robwbright

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Anybody hear the news today?

According to ESPN Radio, the actual results were released today and they show a VERY low epitestosterone level with a near normal testosterone level. This caused a ratio of 11:1 (instead of the maximum ratio of 4:1) even though his testosterone level was near normal.

Thus, Floyd had essentially the same testosterone level as you or I, but he had a very very low epitestosterone - which would likely imply not doping, but tampering.

Erik Casillias - ESPN Radio commentator and practicing attorney was discussing this today and stated (I have no idea whether this is true, but he stated it as such) that the sample had "Floyd Landis" on the side of the container and that about 25 people have access to those samples.

The plot thickens . . .

BTW, apparently the info that he failed the test was not supposed to be released to the public for several weeks until further testing, etc . . . Thus, Floyd's complaints that he's been treated unfairly.

Seems the "prosecutors" in this case like to leak things, as well.

From this link:

http://www.knowledgeproblem.com/archives/001707.html

First, I would like to say I think Landis is telling the truth. As stated by many, his testosterone wasn't high, it was near normal but his epitestosterone was extremely low. He also has hyperthyroidism and is taking medication-so why hasn't someone looked at his meds? Obviously, because America loves a scandal and the typical American doesn't know that cortisone shots act like synthetic hormones in the body. Just because it is injected into his hip, that does not mean it won't enter his bloodstream and also cause release of other hormones in the body, thus setting off all hormone levels. Why don't they check all his hormones and see where they are in ratio to normal? And with his overactive thyroid, which not only burns up everything in the body quickly, it offsets everything, including hormones. And I am sure his medicine, which is likely synthetic, contains some hormone to deregulate the thyroid. The problem with the news is they like to talk whether it contains correct information or not. The news needs to stop misleading the public and stop leaving out pertinent information. Just a little scientific info to open your minds.

Posted by: CC at August 7, 2006 11:58 AM
Now that I realize that the real story is a ratio where the testosterone was normal and the epi was too low... GRRRRRR!!!!! Look... Basically... I'm VERY disappointed and frustrated with the media, his team, the lab, and the short attention span of the public. There's a reason that people are innocent until proven guilty, and it looks like we're starting to see it with Floyd. I think he has a good shot of successfully defending himself. But then what??? What should be crowning achievement of his cycling career - his first Tour victory - will forever be tainted by this mess.
 

Okiewan

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his first Tour victory - will forever be tainted by the French.

All those years being humiliated by Lance and the thousands of attempts to get him, only for him to retire and yet another American hand them their arse... < Doc Holiday voice >, Was more than they could bear". :rotfl:
 

CaptainObvious

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I hear OJ was innocent too.
 

kiwijohn

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I hear OJ was innocent too. ha ha.....

Shoot, I've been a cyclist for 25 years, and I hope he isn't guilty as it paints a fantastic sport with (more ) drug abuse troubles.... not what I want.

Lawyers and the media can twist stories anyway they want.... just as you can buy an engineers report to tell you a bridge collapsed for four different reasons, or food is good/bad/deadly/superb for your health.

What sort of story would it be if he said "Yeah, I did it... screw you all" At least someone's being honest!

But what would the media do for sports stories then? It's all about recovering a bad situation. The media call it a positive spin.... and he's spinnin!!

Why didn't he just take a voluntary test right after the race? Most teams test riders for health before most big races and during training... Why didn;t they offer those up for testing? Igf he has naturally high/low levels of test and epi that would show it up. Hell, his doctor could supply a lifetime of blood tests for that matter!!

If he's clean, he;s clean..... if he's dirty the tests will catch him out. And they did.

Why are you guys defending him? I appluad him for winning against OTHER drug users.

By the way what happened to that sprinter?
 

MrLuckey

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kiwijohn said:
Why didn't he just take a voluntary test right after the race? Most teams test riders for health before most big races and during training... Why didn;t they offer those up for testing? Igf he has naturally high/low levels of test and epi that would show it up. Hell, his doctor could supply a lifetime of blood tests for that matter!!

If he's clean, he;s clean..... if he's dirty the tests will catch him out. And they did.

Why are you guys defending him?

I thought I read that he had been tested several times previously in this years tour and also afterwards and every single one of those tests came back negative?
 

rerfurt

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Jul 7, 2005
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I would like to see someone explain the presence of synthetic testosterone in Loyds body - maybe he had one of those artificial programmable thyroid transplants, that would also explain how he tampered with the hormone levels :-)
 

Rich Rohrich

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I haven't seen anything "official" that says there was any trace of synthetic anything in his A or B sample. Lots of rumors from various sources but nothing official to the best of my knowledge.
 

rerfurt

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Rich, you are right - this c/p from wikipedia describes it more accurately:

"On 1 August 2006 media reports said that the testosterone was synthetic and that the lab had performed a carbon isotope ratio test, or CIR on the A sample, the results of which showed that some of the testosterone in Landis’s body came from an external source and was not naturally produced by his own system. These reported results conflict with Landis's assertions that it was a natural occurrence.[30][16]

The CIR test distinguishes between testosterone produced naturally by the athlete's body and synthetic testosterone introduced from an outside source. The test is also known as Isotope Ratio Mass Spectrometry (IRMS). According to Dr. Gary I. Wadler, a member of the World Anti-Doping Agency, the carbon isotope ratio test needs to be done only once, on either an A or on a B sample, particularly if the athlete’s T/E ratio is high as in Landis' case. [16]"
 

Rich Rohrich

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rerfurt said:
Rich, you are right - this c/p from wikipedia describes it more accurately:

I'm aware of how the various tests work, I posted on the some of the specifics of the test in this thread a week ago : http://dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=138484

My point is, other than some random reports from un-named sources, to the best of my knowledge there has been no "official" verification from the UCI that any exogenous source of testosterone was present in either sample.

I don't know if he was using anything or not, and clearly at this point neither does anyone else, but that hasn't stopped people from being judge and jury without sufficient facts. Gee, what a shock. :whoa:
 

rerfurt

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I for one have never actually seen the real reports, the only way I can relay to the case is by other peoples interpretation - people with things to gain.

For what it is worth I would like to see Landis proving his thyroid went naturally ballistic or the lab made a mistake - I have been watching tour de france since 1995, every single year, and I can't help feel that I wasted my time this year if he did in fact cheat.
 

HajiWasAPunk

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Rich Rohrich said:
I don't know if he was using anything or not, and clearly at this point neither does anyone else, but that hasn't stopped people from being judge and jury without sufficient facts. Gee, what a shock. :whoa:

I'm one of those people, and perhaps wrongfully so. I naively assumed that after all the Lance Armstrong crap that these "experts" could get this monitoring and testing right for the what is only the biggest event in their sport. What a joke. Maybe baseball had it right all those years, just don't even bother testing if you can't get it right!
 

mtk

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rerfurt said:
For what it is worth I would like to see Landis proving his thyroid went naturally ballistic or the lab made a mistake - I have been watching tour de france since 1995, every single year, and I can't help feel that I wasted my time this year if he did in fact cheat.

To me, that is the rub in this whole affair: I don't see where testosterone injections would have provided him with any advantage whatsoever. The things that testosterone brings to the table really won't help in cycling as far as I can see.

I'm inclined to think he is innocent, specifically for that reason. If he was going to cheat, I would think he would do something that would actually give him an advantage.
 

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