FMF Gnarly Desert- All I Can Say is WHOA!

john_bilbrey

Member
Mar 22, 2003
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:aj:

Finally got the Gnarly Desert installed last night on my '03 220. All I can say is holy cow! It makes the 220 a different machine, it's 250-like as far as power. In fact, I'd say it's pretty close to my old ATK 260. Very smooth on the delivery, and it will definitely wind out now. Low end wasn't hurt at all, and mid to top is a huge improvement. I can't believe I waited this long to do this. I'm gonna have to relearn to ride this girl....
As far as fitment goes, I didn't have any of the troubles others have mentioned. It only needed some encouragement a couple of times, mainly when inserting into the exhaust port. I recycled the orings from the stock pipe. I think the biggest help was that I removed the PCII before install and had the mounts loose or removed until I got it all together. Be careful when tightening up the stock mounts, I twisted off one of the bolts that runs through the rubber grommets. Minor setback - luckily I had a bolt that would fit. (Aren't Dremel tools great!)
Jetting- 45 pilot, upped the main to a 148, with stock needle in the 2nd from the top position, AS 1.5 out. I had to up the main from a 140, as "she was a little lean" - resulting in a lean bog similar to what I had posted a month or two ago. Boy, would she scream though! Anyway, jetting is now spot-on and she's purrin' like a kitten.
Next up - 607 reeds and a new piston. I heard of someone locally who had a 220 piston grenade on them at about 500 miles.
 

canyncarvr

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Oct 14, 1999
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re: 'I can't believe I waited this long to do this.'

You'll think the same thing when (if you haven't already) you:

1. Revalve/respring your suspension
2. Off that 33mm carb
3. Change the needle profile
4. Upgrade the reed block
5. etc.
6. etc.......
 
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john_bilbrey

Member
Mar 22, 2003
255
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Yeah, it's like they say in dragracing: "How fast can you afford to go?".
Piston is in the works, as I don't want to be one of the unlucky ones....
 

john_bilbrey

Member
Mar 22, 2003
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Forgot to add...
I haven't even began to tinker with the suspension yet. New springs are a must-have, as I go about 185-190 without gear. The carb will be something I'll do when I get everything else, as the bike is already faster than I can fully utilize. Now, if I could just hit that fancy new lottery we have... :yeehaw:
 

RTL

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Nov 13, 2001
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Cool. Do you know Braahp and the boyz? Let me know if you want to ride Coal Creek and I will hook you up. Check out the Vol Riders website for upcoming events....

www.volunteerriders.com

Love to have you guys over for some KDX rides. Congrats on the new ride.
 

john_bilbrey

Member
Mar 22, 2003
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I don't know if I know them or not...I don't know their real names. Where is Coal Creek- up your way in Knoxville? We generally ride in Copeland's Cove in Livingston. But there is also some good riding in Monterey I hear. I haven't been there in years, so I don't know how it is up there anymore. Who else from the site lives near?
 

KnoxKDX

Member
Jan 29, 2003
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I live n the neighborhood, also and RTL should have me on the VolRider's mailing list by now...I;m still not convinced he actually rides his bike....all kidding aside, RTL, heard you were selling your steed? What's up with that? Going to go Big Orange on us?
 

RTL

~SPONSOR~
Nov 13, 2001
328
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Knox, I have been riding my 200 Rev style, which kills me in the tight trails at Coal Creek... The trails that the Vol Riders have cleared, not the public stuff, are tight and nasty, IMHO! My 200 is not setup to deal with single track stuff. Bottom line is that I am going to have to convert the Rev 200 to a torque style 200 or move on to a four stroke. Truth of the matter is that my skills are not what they used to be, and the four strokes are MUCH easier for me to handle in the tight stuff. I rode a Vol Riders WR400 and fell in love.. I'm partial to blue anyway, growing up on YZ's.

I need to hook up with you and hit the open trials for some fun Rev style action... Then maybe I will keep the KDX and suffer through the tight stuff when necessary.

To turn my screamer (which I love to ride 125 style) into a twactor is going to require some additional funds... I've dropped WAY TOO MUCH into my KDX as is... It's easy to get carried away and build that dream machine that you can never get your money back out of...

I'm thinking a torque pipe, EG 225 kit with mid-low porting, flywheel weight, suspension mods and seat height adjustments are a must if I keep riding the single track stuff.

Let's me and you hook up in the very near future for some comparitive KDX test riding.... Maybe we can get Braahp and the other Cookeville guys to join us... Braahp has a nice setup on his KDX... :thumb:

All of the other club guys that ride my KDX say that it is prime time and that the proble is with the rider, not the equipment... :debil: I guess I need to shutup, quit wrenching, and get some darn seat time!!!

And yes, you are on the master distribution list now, but it will take a little while for the guys to update individual lists.

Welcome aboard Knox! :yeehaw:

John, Braahp is all over these boards, I would email him and introduce yourself.. Braahp is a KDX guru IMHO, and he really provided me with some good info when I got my KDX.. His bike is prime-time, one of the best KDX's that I have seen, and I have seen a ton at this point. Plus, he is experienced with TN trails and tracks...
 
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GREENHORNET

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Jan 20, 2003
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WAIT untill you bore your carb and put some type of reed cage in, That was the first thing i said when i put my rev pipe on was whoa!!!! i could not believe how much it felt like my old KX250. My bike really screams like scary sream.
 

datsun

Member
Jan 16, 2004
16
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what elavation are you, im at 700ft runs like crap on the pilot wont idle just gergllles a 42,seems to be lean on the main a 145, same mods as u
 

john_bilbrey

Member
Mar 22, 2003
255
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45 pilot, 148 main, stock needle in the 2nd clip from top. Might be just a tad rich in the mid range, may try to go back to a 42 pilot. My elevation is just a little higher than yours, I'm guessing around 1000 to maybe 2000.
 

Randyps

Member
Jan 28, 2004
2
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john_bilbrey said:
I. Who else from the site lives near?

I'm in Hunstville, AL. Ever ride at Land Between the Lakes, KY, or Bankhead Nat'l Forest in Danville, AL?

I just bought a new 220 and am loving it.

Randy
 

gwhII

Member
Mar 31, 2003
238
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RTL said:
Knox, I have been riding my 200 Rev style, which kills me in the tight trails at Coal Creek... The trails that the Vol Riders have cleared, not the public stuff, are tight and nasty, IMHO! My 200 is not setup to deal with single track stuff. Bottom line is that I am going to have to convert the Rev 200 to a torque style 200 or move on to a four stroke.
...
I'm thinking a torque pipe, EG 225 kit with mid-low porting, flywheel weight, suspension mods and seat height adjustments are a must if I keep riding the single track stuff.

Hey, one quick thought. I read a post from CanynCarvr in an earlier thread in which he said that running the MT VForceII made it to where he could use the Rev pipe in tight woods. If you haven't already done this, you may want to ping him and see how beneficial it really was. I don't remember which thread it was.

Best,
Greg
 

canyncarvr

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Oct 14, 1999
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It was beneficial a bunch.

I'd always changed pipes when changing riding area types. One time back from the sand I figured I'd give the -30 a try in the woods with the DFII. It worked great.

Good enough that I prefer the -30 now to the -35 in the woods. I wish it didn't stick its chin out quite so far, but it indeed works perfectly. From a 'count-the-revs' tic uphill to a smooth roll-on of power when you need it (as opposed to a sharp, peaky, lofted front end loopit).

I use the lo tension setting. I've tried the high side...on both their original and 'newer' (stiffer) reeds. I prefer the original reed with the original stops set to 'low.'

The newer reeds are still ok. I just prefer the more lose setup, especially with the -30.
 

GREENHORNET

~SPONSOR~
Jan 20, 2003
119
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So Canyan-
You like the -30 better than the -35, I'll have to try that. As long as i get smothe roll on power like the -35. ON my set up i have the RB carb and Boysen Rad valve. I was woundering if i used the stock S/A with the -30 pipe what would that get me(maybe nothing) I have also the Q S/A. What do you think about the FRP torque ring?
 

john_bilbrey

Member
Mar 22, 2003
255
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MT? What's that? I've heard of the Boyesen and the RAD, but what's this? Benefits enhanced over just the 607 reeds?

Seems like I read that the torque ring will "cancel out" some of the benefits of the desert pipe. Maybe I'm just imagining that.
 

canyncarvr

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Oct 14, 1999
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MT is cryptic for MotoTassinari. DFII is cryptic for DeltaForceII. The prior makes the latter.

First off, understand this is completely IMO and all that other disclaimatory bs...

I'm not a radvalve fan. I had one. I did not get any decent bottom response out of the -30 with the stock reed setup, aftermarket reeds ON the stock cage or the radvalve. That was with an rb-modified carb. If you could get past the problem of the radvalve not working in the first place the reeds didn't last a year.

Still, the radvalve had to have the -35 in the woods.

It was the DFII that made the -30 viable in the woods. An airstryker (4-vent keihin carb also rb modified) helped, but the reedcage change was the key.

A longer headpipe (re: torque ring spacer) will tend to shift the power band down. I don't use one. Haven't tried one. I do run two exhaust gaskets. Never tried to dertermine definitively how much of a difference (if any) that makes. It's not worth my time.

Re: aftermarket S/As. When I first put on my PC silencer I was surprised at the low-end tractability/response improvement. I'd read that other than weight a muffler change really didn't accomplish much.

That wasn't my experience.

Keeping the packing in the S/A up to snuff is critical, also. Bottom end will fade slowly over time and you likely won't notice it much. Then finally get around to changing the packing like you should have six months prior and you'll find quite an improvement.

I've got an FmF TCII also that one of these days I need to compare to my PC. Gotta round up some mounting hardware............:think:

**edit**
The 'smooth roll-on' response I'm talking about is a bit touchy to come by. There are two 'sweet spot' air screw settings for the RB-modified carb (never tried it on an oem pwk). You can tune it to a quick/hard throttle response or to a 'softer' but more sure pulling response (an additional turn or so out). I posted this observation some time back...never heard anything further about it.

Here's the basic point of all this drivel. The kdx (and most likely every other machine) is a hugely tuneable device. You can make it do pretty much anything you want it to. Between basic bolt-ons, maintenance, engine tuning, technique, adjustment and general fussin' with you can get to a couple of good places to be. 1. You know your bike well enough that you can tweak out anything, and 2. It's a whole lot more fun to ride in the first place!

Maybe it's not a whole lot of fun messing with eleventy-dozen jetting combinations or your 10th needle on the umpteenth clip, but the result is worth it!!

Speaking of which btw, I've been running a DEK-4 for awhile. Another one'a those 'great' improvements!
 
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GREENHORNET

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Jan 20, 2003
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So your saying that the pitch of the reed cages are different and thats the whole diffrence between the Rad and DFII. Last sunnner i was having a real blast with the rad valve. I'll wait it out and see with this reed cage bizz. seems like i'm the only one that runs the Rad valve.
 

Rhodester

Member
May 17, 2003
549
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See current "FMF gnarly vs. fatty" thread for my comments on the torque ring. The torque ring just seemed to lower the power curve about 200 or 300 RPMs (same characteristics) and made it sound more like a 250. The torque pipe (-35) without the ring will out rev the rev (-30) pipe with the torque ring. I am running the rad valve on my '95 200 because that is how I bought it (used). However, I did change it back to the stock set up just to see the difference. The stock set up didn't have nearly the snappy throttle response to it that the rad valve does. At this point I'm not willing to part with the money for the DFII set up. I just bought a "Q" silencer and will report how it runs in comparison to the Turbine Core (1) silencer as soon as it warms up.
 

canyncarvr

~SPONSOR~
Oct 14, 1999
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Yes, the angle of the reed cage is different but no, that's NOT the whole difference.

As noted, the DFII has more (8) smaller reeds than the radvalve (2). The tension stops are 2-position adjustable on the DFII. That isn't an option on the radvalve.

You're certainly not the only one that runs the radvalve.

But at least you and rhodester (and a couple others) admit it! ;)
 

farmerj

Member
Dec 27, 2002
115
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canyncarvr said:
I use the lo tension setting. I've tried the high side...on both their original and 'newer' (stiffer) reeds. I prefer the original reed with the original stops set to 'low.' The newer reeds are still ok. I just prefer the more lose setup, especially with the -30.
OK, I should probably start a new thread - but I've just got to know! So can someone enlighten me :clue:?

I didn't realize that there were "original" and "newer" style DF II reeds. I got mine last fall - so I assume it has the "newer" reeds.

CC, by "more loose" (I assume?) are you saying that the "original" style slightly enhances the low end vs. the "rev" end? I'm after that bottom end "purr" vs. more revs, if there's a tradeoff to be had.

Can one still purchase the "originals"??
 

canyncarvr

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Oct 14, 1999
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Let me know when you call 'em and ask!!;)

I've got a set of both. The crosshatch pattern in the 'loose' reed is larger than in the 'less loose' reed. They (MT tech...jeff I believe is his name) told me they increased the reed stiffness and decreased the reed stop tension in an effort to improve reed life. That was last fall.

Supposedly (my understanding) the tradeoff twixt the two was supposed to end up in about the same place.

That's not my impression having run both setups. You can feel the difference in tension quite easily (besides...like I said they LOOK different, too). I prefer the more loose reed (larger weave pattern). I just put them back in (choice over the more tightly woven reed)!

I haven't followed up with MT regarding the availability of both.

Until just now. I just asked them the question......I'll let you know what they say.

**edit**
Answer posted on this board !HERE!

From their website:
...our newly designed, proprietary lay-up for our reeds, has proven to be extremely durable. We have done extensive testing with our new carbon fiber reed material and have been amazed by it’s performance and durability.
 
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