proecadgod

Member
Aug 9, 2010
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Hello all I'm a 43 year old former Moto-X racer (B Level going on A). The last time I raced or pretty much rode a bike was 25 years ago. Reason I quit was to pursue playing football and then after that I became a gym/fitness enthusiast for many years.

So long story short... I'm in very good shape physically and I guess getting back to Moto-X is sort of my last harrah. Plus life is too short...

So what I need is advice on is what bike to buy. I'm thinking of picking up a used 125 2S to get back into shape and to work on my riding skills. I figure jumping on a 250 4S or a 450 4S would be a bit too much for me right now. Also I can afford to buy the 125 2S now and then in the spring buy a new 250 4S or 450 4S once I am ready to make the move.

What do you guys think?

-Dave

P.S. I'm 5'10" and weigh about 196...
 
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proecadgod

Member
Aug 9, 2010
14
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Think I'm feeling either a 2009 or 2010 250 4S. Only thing I need to decide is which manufacturer to buy and from reading through this forum that can be a pretty hard question to answer.

So far my order of Bikes is:

1. Red (all around bike)
2. Green (best engine and power)
3. Blue (Most dependable)
4. Yellow (Best handling, but least amount of Power)
5. KTM (No dealership with 100 miles of me)
 

Chili

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Apr 9, 2002
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I've spent an extensive amount of time at the track over the last 8 years and I'll share my opinion on the current crop of 250F's. Keep in mind that and $1.49 will get you a cup of coffee these days.

- Honda has had significantly more issues with valve wear than any other brand over the past several years including the 09, haven't heard much from the Red bunch on the 10's. I do know that the 2010 CRF shares the same ill handling manners that plagued the 09 450 with the new chassis.

- Yamaha is by far the most reliable but it is also the dog of the class power wise and is need of a serious engine makeover. The plastic on the 10's remind me of a chinese pit bike.

- KTM I'd take a 2 stroke tomorrow, you couldn't pay me to take a 4 stroke.

- Suzuki seems to have the same continuous issues with their 250F's (clutch and false neutrals) Some folks have more issues than others. Our last Yellow 250F was in 07 and it was a great bike other than breaking clutch plates on a fairly regular basis. There is literally only 1 2010 RMZ250 in my area and the girl that owns it hasn't raced this year so can't give much feedback on it.

- Kawasaki from 08 on would be my current choice of all the crop of 250F's, great motor and we had no complaints with the handling although some folks throw on a different set of triple clamps to change the offset (we did this with our 450's but didn't feel the 250 needed it). Very few recurrent issues with the green bikes over the last few years and it is a sea of green around here.
 

robwbright

Member
Apr 8, 2005
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Love my 03 YZ250f 4 stroke. Might be underpowered, but it's got plenty for me. I think the Yoshi exhaust helps mine significantly my bike has substantially more top end than my buddy's 03. According to the dynos I've seen, the Yosh added about 3+ HP.

Last fall I switched from a 2002 RM125 2 stroke. Liked that bike a lot - handled really well, decent power - but I couldn't pull a start against 250f's unless I was absolutely perfect off the start - and I'm not often perfect.

I found a steal on the 250f for $1000 - recent total rebuild of the motor - but it looked like crap. Spent $400 in plastics, graphics, frame guard, painting the frame, etc. . . and it looked like a brand new one.

As far as being underpowered - when I ride that bike to it's potential, then I'll consider it "underpowered". In watching/listening to my helmet cam videos, I'm usually running at about 8000-9000 rpm - and the bike continues to pull hard up to 12,000+. Thus, I've got a lot of room for improvement.

Of course, I wasn't riding the 125 to its potential, either.

And here's the reason people like the 4 strokes vs. the 2 strokes - and these are from 2002 bikes - YZ125 2 stroke and YZ250f 4 stroke:

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/YZ125_250F_torque_comparro.jpg

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/YZ125_250F_hp_comparro.jpg
 

proecadgod

Member
Aug 9, 2010
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I'm sure all the Manufacturers bikes are good, but I'm trying to get the right bike out of the box for my needs. I like a lower seating position and a great suspension set up that enables me to corner faster. I think anyone can go fast in a straight line...

The RMZ with some engine mods could very well be the way to go, but the Kawasaki's already fast engine and suspension already has all that I'm looking for.

Then again no mater what I buy I'll probably end up sinking a few thousand into the motor and the suspension over the winter. This way by spring I'll have a super fast race rocket that will win me some races.
 

Chili

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Apr 9, 2002
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I'm all about spending cash on good suspension but personally I'm not a fan of playing the engine mod game on 250F's. They are generally ticking time bombs to begin with. The difference in performance between the dog of the class and the best motor in the class will likely be imperceptible to all but the finest of riders.

If you want to have the biggest HP bike on the line and plan to race AMA races in the 250F classes just buy a 250 2 stroke, you'll have 10 hp on the 4 strokes.
 

proecadgod

Member
Aug 9, 2010
14
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I was actually thinking of going the 2 Stroke route, but I was told the 4 strokes had a smoother power delivery and are easier to control by some of my old racing buddies.

I wonder if their old age led them to that conclusion...LOL

If later down the road I find that I want to jump on a 2 Stroke as a 2nd bike then I'll pick one up. They are pretty cheap and I can afford another bike if needed...
 

robwbright

Member
Apr 8, 2005
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"A few thousand into the motor and suspension over the winter . . ."

:whoa:

You started this thread by thinking of buying a 125 2s and now you're thinking of putting several thousand dollars into the motor and suspension of a 250f? If you think you need that much motor and suspension to be fast, then why do you think a 450 will be too much for you?

Just buy a 450, have the suspension valved and be done with it - you're certainly big enough in size/weight to handle one - and if you've got lots of B class riding experience - even 20 years ago, I'd think you'd adjust within a matter of days or weeks. A stock 450 will likely have more power than you'll ever need or use - and you won't have to spend big $$ on the motor. Even Ricky Carmichael's mechanic said they weren't tuning RC's bike for max power.

Besides, if you're a really good rider, you'll beat guys on mod bikes anyway. After all, Ryan Hughes on an RM85 beat a B rider on a 450 in a 2 lap MX race.

And "smoother power delivery" is a bit of an understatement. The 2 stroke hit is probably more "fun", but the 4s pull feels about like an electric motor in comparison -a very strong electric motor.
 

proecadgod

Member
Aug 9, 2010
14
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Your right I started this thread saying I'm thinking of buying a 125, but after some research and chatting with others I'm now looking at 250F's. I only mentioned modding the bike for next year after riding/training the rest of this season.

A lot of people (like yourself) are telling me to just get a 450 because of my size, but I can do that next season. Right now my main focus is getting back into the swing of things.

I wouldn't doubt that Ryan Hughes on an RM85 beat a B rider on a 450. I remember being able to beat older guys on 250's on a YZ100 when I was 15.

Anyway I'm a man on a mission and I have a lot of work to do in order to accomplish my goals. Your advice is very much appreciated. :cool:

-Dave
 

jb_dallas

Member
Feb 17, 2009
498
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Dave

Do some research before you rule out the KTM. Just about everyone in my group trail rides on a KTM. I know several people that have put over 300 hours on the '07 and prior 450 4t engine (450 EXC/XCW) without a rebuild...only valve adjustments and no shims...the good old flat head screw driver valve adjustments. I have only heard positive feedback from KTM owners. A guy from work has a KTM 250 SX (2t) that had over 100 hours before the top end rebuild. Granted, it was trail ridden....not raced, but any way you slice it, that is a ton of hours. With that being said, I would buy a Yamaha, that is what I ride for a reason...as said earlier...reliability.
 

skiz

Member
May 22, 2010
33
0
proecadgod said:
What the hell happened while I was gone with all this 4-Stroke crap? I guess a lot can happen in 25 years.
I'm here for a similar reason. . I stopped when my first kid was born in 1992. . I was 28. . 17 years have passed and my youngest is 11. . I'm going to get back into the sport and bring him with me.

But I don't know a damn thing about thumpers. . I know the big thumpers used to sound cool as hell and they were slow and heavy 17 years ago.
 

skiz

Member
May 22, 2010
33
0
Chili said:
Ride one and you'll think you're in heaven, blow one up and you'll know you're in hell.
Stop splitting my head in half or I'll never make up my mind and I'll never buy anything.

Is the "hell" part just plain cost of repair or is there more that I need to know ?
 

skiz

Member
May 22, 2010
33
0
proecadgod said:
Think I'm feeling either a 2009 or 2010 250 4S. Only thing I need to decide is which manufacturer to buy and from reading through this forum that can be a pretty hard question to answer.

So far my order of Bikes is:

1. Red (all around bike)
2. Green (best engine and power)
3. Blue (Most dependable)
4. Yellow (Best handling, but least amount of Power)
5. KTM (No dealership with 100 miles of me)
I just saw "most dependable" and I think I fell in love
 

skiz

Member
May 22, 2010
33
0
Chili said:
I've spent an extensive amount of time at the track over the last 8 years and I'll share my opinion on the current crop of 250F's. Keep in mind that and $1.49 will get you a cup of coffee these days.

- Honda has had significantly more issues with valve wear than any other brand over the past several years including the 09, haven't heard much from the Red bunch on the 10's. I do know that the 2010 CRF shares the same ill handling manners that plagued the 09 450 with the new chassis.

- Yamaha is by far the most reliable but it is also the dog of the class power wise and is need of a serious engine makeover. The plastic on the 10's remind me of a chinese pit bike.

- KTM I'd take a 2 stroke tomorrow, you couldn't pay me to take a 4 stroke.

- Suzuki seems to have the same continuous issues with their 250F's (clutch and false neutrals) Some folks have more issues than others. Our last Yellow 250F was in 07 and it was a great bike other than breaking clutch plates on a fairly regular basis. There is literally only 1 2010 RMZ250 in my area and the girl that owns it hasn't raced this year so can't give much feedback on it.

- Kawasaki from 08 on would be my current choice of all the crop of 250F's, great motor and we had no complaints with the handling although some folks throw on a different set of triple clamps to change the offset (we did this with our 450's but didn't feel the 250 needed it). Very few recurrent issues with the green bikes over the last few years and it is a sea of green around here.
Chili said, "Yamaha is by far the most reliable" and I'm feeling much better about thumpers now.

My apologies to proecadgod, I've kind of highjacked his thread. . I'm not looking for what he's looking for. . I'm looking for hard trail riding, minimal jumping, and no racing.

Skiz
 

Chili

Lifetime Sponsor - Photog Moderator
Apr 9, 2002
8,060
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Keep in mind all my "opinions" in this thread about brands related to 250F's. And yes the hell comment was directly related to the cost of a catastrophic failure on a 4 stoke.
 

proecadgod

Member
Aug 9, 2010
14
0
Update: I went riding for the first time on the new bike yesterday and man I am hurting today. I'm amazed how out of shape I feel and I guess working out at the gym only somewhat prepared me for what has to be one of the most demanding sports today.

Yesterday I was moving along at a pretty good rate because the guy I went riding with is 12 years younger. I admit I got so tired towards the end of our ride that I was pretty much holding on for my life as the arm pump was causing me to make mistakes towards the end. Nice thing is I made it through without any wipe outs and I had a couple close calls.

At the end of the day my buddy told me he didn't even have to wait up for me once which is saying a lot as he is a former racer and never stopped riding.
 

proecadgod

Member
Aug 9, 2010
14
0
Update: Week three:

Wow do I love this bike! I have to admit it was so easy to ride at first and it just keeps getting better all the time. Thing I love most about the 4 stroke is the low end power coming out of corners. I've been practicing with a guy who rides a 06 CR250R and he has a pipe kit, exhaust and some other stuff and he starts to pull away on the straights, but out of the corners I pull ahead. Also hitting a jump out of a corner is easier with that low end too...

Now I'm on track with my training and I'm out riding again. Only problem now is the suspension. It is set up for a much lighter person and right now I'm about 195 and the bike is difficult on braking, jumps, stutters and woops. If I remember correctly stock RMZ 250's are basically set up for a 160 pound person so its going to very very soft for a guy my weight. So to fix this I'm brining my suspension to Factory Connection in New Hampshire which is about an hour away from my house.

Steve at FC recommends a .45kg to .46kg up front and a 5.4kg to 5.5kg in the back, plus a revalve. This he says will make a huge difference in the way the bike performs...

I guess I'll find out next week.
 
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