bashn

Member
Dec 6, 2000
65
0
I hated my '94 KTM 250ex/c for 3 reasons:

1) Clutch drag. It was difficult to start in gear, and if you killed the engine going down a nasty hill the rear wheel would stay locked up, even with the clutch pulled in.

2) The brakes basically sucked. They had a fairly hard pull, but would lock-up at the most in-opportune time.

3) They didn't turn very well.

There was plenty I loved about the bike, but I was happier with XR's. Now I'm thinking I would like to sell my DRZ and get a 250 or 300 KTM. I think KTM has addressed the clutch problems, but I'm not sure about the brakes or handling. I would also like to hear opinions of which KTM (200/250/300) would make the best mount for technical, rocky, high altitude woods riding. (Colorado Rockies). In case your wondering, I'm getting tired of heavy 4-strokes, and difficult starting drills, and I just don't like the way they sound.

Mark
'00 DRZ400
'01 YZ267F
 

Bill Hibbs

~SPONSOR~
Aug 25, 1999
537
0
Answers:

1.) The magura clutch is oh so sweet. I've had no problems with it and man is it smooth. Starting in gear is No problem

2.) Brembo, I'm not sure what they had in 94, but I don't think you can get much better than Brembo Brakes with steel braided cables. They're not as "grabby" as some other brakes I've used, but they're very consistant and have GREAT stopping power when you need it.

3.) They still are a little slow on the steering side. Applied Racing clamps and drop the tubes a few mm's and your set. I'm riding a 300 right now and basically run it like you would a 4-stroke, utilizing it's low end power. It get's through the technical stuff pretty well though. It starts easy, but it IS a lot of motor to Kick. The best thing is they're just so light and nimble. I'd say they've come a long way in the last seven years. At least from the bike you've described. :)
 

bashn

Member
Dec 6, 2000
65
0
Thanks Bill,

"Grabby" was the word I was looking for in describing my '94 brembo's. Would you describe the 300 as difficult or easy to stall in technical situations? When it does stall, can you light it up with 1 good kick? My DRZ needs to be in neutral so I can manipulate the hot-start button with my clutch hand. Even then it takes 2 or 3 kicks with a very tall kicker. I'm beginning to warm up to KTM quite a bit now.


Mark
 
B

biglou

Mark-Go Here. I just made the switch from the DRZ400E to a 2001 250MXC. I think you can modulate the brakes a little more on the 2001's compared to even teh 2000 models. Either way, I think you'll be happy. IMO-These bikes are works of art, as well as being high-quality and a blast to ride.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Strick

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Nov 8, 1999
1,782
2
Stalling is not an issue. You will need to use the clutch in the really technical stuff, more so than with most 4-strokes. If you install the Delta II reed cage, and have it on the low setting, the bike becomes a tractor. If it does stall it is one kick - in gear!
 

SPD

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Feb 20, 2001
591
0
Sorry to but in on your ktm thread.Strick how much jetting changes did you have to do when installing the Delta? Just put one on my Husky.
Hi Bill Gonna try to go riding sat.
 

Strick

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Nov 8, 1999
1,782
2
I dropped the pilot one, and the main one. I eventually had to drop the needle down one I raise the clip. When I first installed the Delta II, I also had just put in a new top end. I left the needle fat for the first 2 rides.
 

slickhenry

Member
Jul 13, 2001
73
0
I know this thread is pretty much hashed out but I thought I would throw my hat in too. I ride a 300 exc in tight woods mostly and I love it. But I find the brakes on my 99 to be just "adequate". If you are looking for a used ktm I would go with '00 or newer to get the updated discs.
 

Timr

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jul 26, 1999
1,972
6
Originally posted by bashn
I hated my '94 KTM 250ex/c for 3 reasons:

1) Clutch drag. It was difficult to start in gear, and if you killed the engine going down a nasty hill the rear wheel would stay locked up, even with the clutch pulled in.

2) The brakes basically sucked. They had a fairly hard pull, but would lock-up at the most in-opportune time.

3) They didn't turn very well.


I had very similar issues with my '92 300 EXC. The clutch dragging led to stalling in tight enduro test sections, and when I was tired I had a hard time getting the 300 restarted.

The bike felt big and slow turning. It was very finicky when it came to jetting, and I couldn't get the suspension sorted out. My '92 had the upside down WP forks. A year or two later, they went to the right side up 'zokes.

Even at that time, many many guys were riding KTMs and liking them very much. I never came to terms with my bike.

Even though it seems like a step back, I sold my KTM and picked up a brand new KDX 200 in '96. I was immediately promoted to the B class the next year. I started getting top 5 finishes in really long tough enduros. I could ride my KDX faster longer.

Now, after 5 years on the KDX, when I get in the mood for a new bike, I think I'll be looking for a 200 EXC. I really like the 200 size engine and the 200 class. I really like the new 200 EXC and also hope that some of the issues that I had with my KTM have been solved.

My 1984 KTM 250 M/XC was probably the best bike that I've ever owned. I loved that bike. I should've kept it. :)
 

bashn

Member
Dec 6, 2000
65
0
I think I'm leaning strongly towards a '01 or '02 300 E/XC. The reed trick sounds like a good idea. Maybe even a little flywheel wieght. A friend has a '92 250 E/XC that turned into a virtual tractor just by adding a 10 oz flywheel wieght. He still rides that bike everywhere! Probly has 5-7k miles on it. Thanks for all the input. Your input has been very helpful. I better start schmoozing up the wife.:p


Mark
 

weimedog

~SPONSOR~
Damn Yankees
Nov 21, 2000
959
2
Rocky Mountains? I chatted with a few folks just the other day about that question. (KTM300 vs. KTM200 and E/XC vs. M/XC) Here was THEIR concensus as I understood it. ( I know this third party stuff stinks...but you said Rocky Mts. and I ride/chat with a lot of folks on KTM's)

The 300 was better for the hills & altitude than the 200..obviously. But when it got down to the real difference they felt the 200 was better for the agressive types and the 300 for the more casual riders. No one recomended the 250. I have no Idea why. Seems like the 400 was equal in assesment to the 300. No one wanted a 520 in the single track stuff. So the racer types leaned towards the 200.

Also if Hare Scrambles was a part of the mix, the M/XC was prefered. If not the E/xc. Something about the fuel tank size.

My opinion? If I was to buy a KTM it would be a E/XC 400 four stroke for trail riding ( Racing might be a different answer...!!) around Colorado. The four strokes seem to be less sensitive to altitude changes than the smaller two stokes. We have really long down hills where you may go several minutes in a trailing throttle condition. Four strokes handle that better. Positive oiling and less finicky carburation in that special condition. On the long rocky single track steep (whew) uphills, I feel much more comfortable with a four stroke. Seem to be able to back off and pick around nasty conditions and go again without busting the rear tire loose. A four stroke thing. I just spent a bunch of time on a VOR 400 and it was perfect...MUCH better than my 503 for the single track stuff! The KTM should be similar and excellent for these conditions for the same reasons. ( Had a fellow with a KTM380 along as well) It also seems that the four stokes finds traction better than the two strokes I have ridden up in the hills. Sounds generic...but the fact is I don't feel the need to carry as much speed on the four strokes. Makes for a more relaxing day. And I still keep up with my kids...with a lot less effort. Last but not least is the E-start. Thats got to be a god send when you stall on a hill side where its just too damn steep or there isn't any easy way to get a bike turned around. Happens out here.

If I had to pick between 2-strokes it would be the KTM300 M/XC over ANY other 2-stroke on the market place. But I doubt I am as fast/aggressive as you. Have you considered a TM300? Based on your other bike (YZ) bet it fits closer to what you want.

(I also rode a DRZ400......nice trail but it was a LOAD! Any KTM anything will feel like a feather weight as compared to a DRZ when the pace picks up)

(Timr..we have an old 1989KTM M/xc 250 in the stable with a Keihen Carb and Dynaport pipe...but after the kids experience the light weight 4-Strokes we have around..NO one wants to ride it anymore. They say its too tall. Too top heavy. Not enough throttle control as compared to the other stuff we have. Front end doesn't stick as well in corners. Go figure.I like it):scream:
 
Last edited:

HiG4s

~SPONSOR~
Mar 7, 2001
1,311
0
Did your XR have disk or drum brakes? The last XR I had used drum brakes (the 200 still does) and not only would they not lock up, they would not stop the bike.
 

quadrunner

Member
Jul 20, 2001
48
0
Weimedog, I think the 520 EXC is going to be just fine for Colorado single track riding, with some work. Can't say positively yet. At first, bike was positively terrifying, threatening to spit me off every pebble or wheelie on my head, or stall off the bottom. But it responded nicely to suspension adjustments on both ends. Bike has several problems for slow trail riding, but all seem solvable. Fan kit keeps temps under control. Too much compression damping at each end for crawling over rocks, and still geared too tall. Clutching the 520 is more work than it needs to be. A 13T countershaft sprocket was a big help. I think along with a 51 or 52 rear, throttle control in the gnarly stuff will be an option again. Getting the rebound settings matched to the lower compression settings lets the bike hop over rocks on the steep inclines, and keep the front wheel down. On steep downhills, the bike negotiates the rocks without kicking the rear or overloading the front. So...I'm happy with the suspension now. Two issues I'm still working on, seat height and tall gearing. Lower gearing multiplies the inertia (flywheel effect) as the square of the % change. So even the 13T countershaft makes a noticeable difference in reducing the stall tendency. The lower gearing tames the abrupt power delivery. The other issue, the seat height I'm leaning towards shaving the seat foam. Work in progress.
 

weimedog

~SPONSOR~
Damn Yankees
Nov 21, 2000
959
2
I ride a VOR V-Cross 503 in the single track stuff. My friend a VOR 503 Enduro. We do fine. I get through bouncing off tree and rocks and enjoy the sweet low end power. The power of a VOR is very similar to the KTM520 so I am certain you will have the same kind of experience. So I was happy as can be...until I rode a VOR 400 V-Cross. Riding them head to head on the same day in Wyoming on single track was an epiphany. Riding the same trails was a lot easier and my speed was better on the 400. And to top it off I didn't have to work as hard pitching the 400 from tree to tree.

All I was doing in the prior post was reporting on what I found and what others who had my same type of experience and TOLD me what I DIDN'T want to hear cause I was sold on a 503. Most of folks are cool enough not to say "I told you so". Instead they say "Wow the thing is a MONSTER" How do you do in the single track stuff! Bet its fast as hell on the Fire roads! ( Of course thats kryptic for: "You got to be an idiot to bring that thing into the tight woods, after you bash down a few trees maybe you will get some sense in that moron head of yours")

At my level of riding a 503 is tons of fun most everywhere and I enjoy the heck out of it. Even in Single track. But if I strip away emotion I would be better off with the 400 in the tight suff. Actually I would probably be better off with the 400 everywhere...I'm just not ready to conceed to the point yet.:(

Its possible at your level of riding skill my experience doesn't apply. There are plenty of fast/good riders out there who can make those big bikes work for them in the tight stuff....I'm too old and heavy. I'm just realistic about my actual limits now. Should have bought a 400.

By the way..I love my VOR 503. I bet you will love your KTM520..they are awesome machines. My bet is you probably won't need a fan kit. My 503 doesn't. I rode during those 95 degree days in first gear for hours. Never boiled over. I think the VOR uses exactly the same radiators as the KTM.:)
 
Last edited:

quadrunner

Member
Jul 20, 2001
48
0
I agree with what you are saying. I mean, no shame to admit that tuning the 520EXC to work well in the tight single line means taking the hard edge off, so it responds closer to my other trail bike, the ubiquitous DR350. But there are some things I can't depend on the DR350 to do. Some hill climbs are beyond its ability, when I want 2nd or 3rd gear to maintain momentum and get up on top of the loose stuff, versus digging holes in 1st gear. Or have something left at 13,000 ft. Or sand washes in Utah. The 400EXC is no doubt easier to ride though.
 

bashn

Member
Dec 6, 2000
65
0
Well, I guess this thread is getting pretty tired but I got some great insights. Thanks weimedog! I'm going to have to decide between the 400MX/C and 300MX/C. I like 4-stroke power, but my DRZ400 is too heavy and doesn't have E-start. The KTM 400 addresses both of these issues. Does anyone know how much the 400 wieghs? I know the claimed dry weight is 236lbs, but KTM uses that same number for SX, MX/C, and EX/C models, so I know it can't be accurate for all of them! I think my DRZ goes about 272 lbs with gas.:(

Mark
 

Strick

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Nov 8, 1999
1,782
2
' 01 400exc = 244 with no gas in tank, but with all other fluids, at our local KTM dealer's shop. These guys weigh everything. I have a CFR450 on order. The guys at my local KTM shop's 2nd statement was, bring it down here as soon as you get it and let us weigh it, please! The first statement was, you not buying a complete bike (because they know I race desert).
 

bashn

Member
Dec 6, 2000
65
0
Thanks Strick. I also have a CRF450 comming, strictly for MX. At 244lbs with E-start, I have no choice. The DRZ400 is up for sale, soon to be replaced with a KTM 400 EX/C! If the Honda wieghs more than 235lbs, wet w/no gas, then I'm out. It will be very interesting to see if the numbers Honda is claiming are real. 225lbs + coolant + engine/fork oil should come in around 235 lbs. Figure 2 quarts engine oil, 2 quarts fork/shock oil=6lbs, 2 quarts coolant=4 lbs. That's 225 + 6 + 4 = 235. Time will tell.

Mark
'00 DRZ400 (for sale!)
'01 YZ250F
 

weimedog

~SPONSOR~
Damn Yankees
Nov 21, 2000
959
2
There will be two of the new Electric Start Perimeter Framed 450 VOR's at the Colorado 500. Hope to have one in Longmont after for a bit. Wonder what its going to weigh. That Honda might set new standards in light weight 4-Strokes.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom