Hey all you dog people...

[Jon K.]

One last thing.

I have no animosity toward these animals. Pit Bulls and Rottweilers are magnificent animals. Their power, grace, and speed is awesome to say the least. And I realize that they are loyal and loving animals.

It is when children are brought into the equation that I get my panties in a wad.

 

[Thump]

Well Jon, I don't see where it states that "Oh, and 10% of fatal dog attacks involve SLEEPING INFANTS!" (as posted by you in your first) that is what I menat be creative writing. My intent was not to offend you. If you state things as fact as you did above in your first post people are going to question the validity of your "facts". The CDC also states that the vast majority of child fatalities occured when the children were unsupervised and over 50% were males under the age of 10.

This is a straight quote from the CDC's research that has been being conducted for the last 25 years. "No breed of dog is inherently vicious, as all breeds of dogs were created and are maintained exclusively to serve and co-exist with humans. The problem exists not within the breed of dog, but rather within the owners that fail to control, supervise, maintain and properly train the breed of dog they choose to keep.
"

BTW: I too have first hand experience with this.... I missed DW01 due to a neighbor's dog attacked my ex-wife, it was a pit bull mix and it was not the dogs fault, it was the POS owner that lived next door to me. In fairness to the dog she was a complete biotch and dogs can sense those things. :)

 

[Smit-Dog]

Thump and/or Jon,

Please post the URL to your CDC reference source.

The quote "... as all breeds of dogs were created and are maintained exclusively to serve and co-exist with humans." attributed to the CDC seems very uncharacteristic of a scientific research organization.

Thanks...

 

[Thump]

http://www.fataldogattacks.com/

5th Paragraph under Breed Factor

she is one of the leading experts in dog bite fatalities and attacks and is consulted by many agencies. She quotes information from the CDC.

 

[Thump]

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html Is another good one.

This is a good article too. BTW http://www.dogexpert.com/Popular Press/Dogsthatbite.html

Or this, http://www.drklein.net/_disc1/00000031.htm

But the real bread and butter is here: http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/fact_book/14_Dog_Bite_Injuries.htm and staight of the CDC site... "Children are at greater risk of injury and death from dog bites. Many children do not know how to behave around a dog. Children's small size and inability to fend off an attack may put them at additional risk.
"

If you run a search on dog attacks at http://search.cdc.gov/ you will come up with 5486 related pages to read. I have read some there and a lot elsewhere. When a family member is a victim you research things like this.

 

[Smit-Dog]

Well then, what was quoted was not the CDC, but an author's web site hawking a book.

There is a difference between objective research findings published by the CDC, and an author's subjective opinion based on CDC findings.

Just trying to promote the facts here... :thumb:

 

[Thump]

Smit, go to the CDC links above grab a cup of coffee and do some reading... :) Then lets talk facts K?

 

[Smit-Dog]

Thump - I think this whole issue boils down your last post.

Some dogs don't mix well with children. They may be fine for years, then slowly (or suddenly) turn aggressive. No one can guarantee/predict with certainty that a dog won't attack a child in a given situation.

Believe me, I'm not saying that it's the dog's fault. It may be the owner of the dog (improper training/socialization), or the parent's of the child for putting them at risk.

Bottom line is that if you have kids of your own, and have seen a child mauled by a dog, you may feel a little stronger about exposing your child to that risk.

 

[Mully]

Originally posted by gospeedracer
Geez, I was maliciously attacked by a freaking, flying PUG for cripes sake! I suppose you should put out a bulletin about crazed Pugs.

Stop it speedy, quit picking on poor little "sweet" Pugsley. :laugh:
(Best story I heard at DW) :thumb:

God love our furry little children. I just wish I had more time for a dog. For now I guess the finicky feline will have to do. And yes she will bite me if she is mad. I have always felt that "Animals can not tell you they are upset, they have to show you". Bite, chew up something, potty on the floor, etc.

 

[Thump]

Yes I would agree with you Smit. No different than how some feel about kids on dirtbikes that have seen child fatalities or injuries due to the sport though.

I was not disputing the danger of dogs because they can be dangerous, so can motorcycles, cats, people, cars... whatever. I was disputing arguments that say it is a breed specific issue because it's not. But people believe what they want to believe, just as they do about many other things.

 

[Smit-Dog]

For every person that says their Chow is a gentle, people-loving dog, there is someone else that says their cocker spaniel is a crazed wilder-beast. These anecdotal experiences don't mean squat if your goal is objective analysis.

The key message I'm espousing here is tendencies. Why is it that people are sometimes afraid to make broad generalizations and conclusions based on research findings? I'm not talking about stereotyping either. But I believe that mental, emotional, and behavioral tendencies can be attributed to a given breed, race, gender, socio-economic status, geographical local, etc.

Why is it that in the CDC study German Shepards and Chows have a disproportionately higher rate of attack compared to other breeds? Why are male, un-neutered dogs much more likely to attack? If the training/upbringing/socialization factors are given as determining factors (important factors nonetheless) for a well-behaved dog, then why does neutering reduce the risk of attack?

Now you could interpret the results with the conclusion that male German Shepards and male Chows tend to be raised/trained by people specifically to be more aggressive (and then write a book). Or maybe male children under the age of 15 are naturally attracted to approach and antagonize strange German Shepards and Chows when compared to approaching and antagonizing other breeds.

:think:

 

[XRpredator]

damn the racial, er, breed profiling! :silly:

 

[Thump]

A few years ago when I was really looking int dog bites and attacks German Shepards were #1 on the list of dog bites in america, Golden retrievers were #2 and #3 were Laboradors. Why? well it was simple to me, the most popular dog in America by a large margin was the German shepard, followed by the Lab then the Golden. I also found that the with all things equal the Dalmation had the highest bite ratio in the US. Without the number of total German shepards or chows the stitistic is bunk. It would be like saying most Fatal car crashes occur in Chevrolets and therefore they are unsafe when they outnumber other MFGs 2:1 (that is a hypothetical of course)

Tendencies are a predispositions to think, act, behave, or proceed in a particular way. I am not afraid to make broad generalizations and conclusions based on research findings but the research does not show the full picture. Here ya go, I'll make a broad generalization based on REAL reasearch findings. Any dog can bite, can be dangerous and can even cause death to humans.

 

[gxdragon]

Originally posted by Smit-Dog
socio-economic status

So if the dog were to get a better job and move into a better neighborhood he may be less likely to attack? They should come up with a government assistance program to help educate or give job training to these pets. :p

Why are male, un-neutered dogs much more likely to attack? If the training/upbringing/socialization factors are given as determining factors (important factors nonetheless) for a well-behaved dog, then why does neutering reduce the risk of attack?
[/B]

Someone cut mine off I'd just be pissed. :flame:

 

[LoriKTM]

I hate to drag this thing on, but one item that has not been mentioned is HOW these dogs were bred.  It is well established that nearly all of the dogs sold at pet stores are bred at "puppy mills"--farms where dogs are kept as livestock and bred continuously, often in horrible living conditions.  These puppies, even if they are so-called "pure bred"  (the puppy mills have been known to falsify information to get AKC papers) CAN have aberrant behavioral problems not typical of their breed.  (Do a Google search for "puppy mills" or any of your favorite breed websites and you'll see what I'm talking about).

Getting a dog from a pet store is a crap shoot-- may be a good dog, or could be a nasty dog, despite your loving home.   Reputable dog breeders do selective breeding for the absolute best qualities of the breed-- and that includes temperament.   They WILL NOT knowingly allow one of their dogs to be bred, knowing it may have a personality disorder.  They will often put a puppy down, if it exhibits extreme temperament problems.

So it is possible that these people who had mean dalmatians or great pit bulls were due just as much to the dog's parentage as its upbringing.

In response to Zio's original post: on the basis of not knowing the dog's parentage, I would be hesitant to bring the dog into the home.  Most dogs are quite friendly while young, but can change once they reach adulthood.  I understand this point is probably moot now, since it appears the dog was taken.  :( 

 

[Smit-Dog]

According to the AKC registration ranking statistics for 2002:

1. Retrievers (Labrador) - 154,616 registered
2. Retrievers (Golden) - 56,124
3. German Shepards - 46,963
:
:
54. Chows - 2,199

While this represents only "registered" dogs, given that fact that there are more than 4 times as many Retrievers as there are German Shepards, and 95 times more Retrievers than there are Chows, I still think there is data to show that German Shepards and Chows bite/attack a disproportional amount.

It's enough evidence for me to keep my kids away from these dogs.

 

[zio]

why do people get golden retrievers? They always stink.

 

[OldassKDX]

hey, lets not talk smack of the golden retrievers now. Big, dumb, friendly, what else could you want?

 

[Timr]

Originally posted by zio
why do people get golden retrievers? They always stink.

My brother had a theory that Chrysler gave away a labrador retriever with every Jeep Grand Cherokee sold.  He once pointed out to me on a road trip that every time we saw a Jeep Grand Cherokee, there was a lab head sticking out the window of the passenger seat door. 

Very Strange.  :eek:

 

[Jon K.]

My dad has a golden retriever. "Red" And yes; he always stinks. Great dog, though.

Harmless as a fly. :p

 

[OutlawXR4]

I'm really getting sick of having to here the B.S. people talk about large breed dogs being the ones that attack all the time. I had a Rottweiler that my parents got when I was in the 3rd grade. I was the youngest child the dog had been around until I was 17, and I never did anything like sticking my hands in his mouth or pulling on his ears, etc. Around that time I watched my boss' kids for him a few times for the extra $$. These two boys were about 6yrs and the other was 18 months or so. The boys would stick their hands in my dogs mouth, pull on his lips, his ears, lay on top of him, etc. And my Rottweiler took every bit of the attention with love, never growled or beared a tooth towards either one.

I know a guy in Chicago when I lived out there that owned a Pitbull. He too had a child, this dog was one of the most playful, loving dogs I have ever seen.

As well I have been around many other dogs, large and small, and have found that the smaller ones are more prone to attack, usually because they are intimidated. Either way, I think the way your pets are raised has alot to do with their behavior. Not only the way you treat them, but also where they sleep, how often you play with them, taking them outside for walks, introducing them to other people, and most importantly showing them who is Alpha.

Especially, because I'm pretty sure that we haven't had just good luck with every dog we've owned over the years, or any of our friends for that matter, it's how these dogs are raised not what type of dog they are.

 

[OutlawXR4]

Oh yeah, at the same time we had our Rot, we also had a Chow, she too was a very good dog, and was good with kids until she got old and sick and had to be put down. My Uncle had a Chow that was not around little kids and was a friendly dog, first time I met this dog I was about 7 or 8 and she was a year or two old.

Its, really quite simple though, If your dog does happen to turn in a very bad way, just give em' the little lead pill, it'll never happen again. And I don't mean the occasional growl because your kid is screwing with their food while the dog is eating, or other stuff like that. Hell, I'll take your hand off too, if your f***in with my food.

 

[Hucker]

To add a little humour to this thread, my cat attacks the lab next door. All 90lbs of him.. She has the worst attitude I have seen, worse than any dog, I am glad she isn't 90lbs cause she's be dragging people from their beds...lol


(last week she killed a squirrel) Everyone knows squirrels aren't the friendliest of customers..

 

[Pantera]

for what reason do people breed pits?

 

[Bill Hibbs]

Pits were bread for one reason.. to fight. Small ears, deep, hidden eyes, extremely muscular jaws. Pits were also bread with certain fighting tendencies or techniques. The most popular was to grab and hang on, especially around the neck. This is the problem with pits. You may have a well, socialized dog, but if something does "trigger" it to fight, these tendencies kick in and are very dangerous. The Sigfraud and Roy/Tiger thing comes to mind. These animals were well socialized, very playful, pleasant animals, but something triggered it, and it went back to it's "instincts."

Personally, I think the purchase of a dog should be a well researched endeavor. This thing's going to be with you and your family for a Lonng time. The "instincts" of a retriever is to be loyal to its pack. Hunting dogs that were overly agressive or fought were killed to get them out of the blood line. Plus you want to research the parents of the dog and as far into it's documented bloodline as possible. It's very easy to teach a well tempered dog to fight or attack if that's what you want.

I see the insurance companies wiping out a lot of these vicious dogs by their bans and refused coverages...