idl1975

Member
Aug 19, 2008
23
0
Just bought a second hand '03 220R.

When I got it home (100 miles road riding on stock gearing - fairly high revs, but not flat out), I noticed the gear oil was slightly low ('low' mark on the sight glass) and very dark. As I happened to have a spare 3/4 bottle of 10w/40 sitting around from my road bikes, I drained the old oil and refilled. First thing that concerned me was a slightly cloudy layer on top of the oil (no white gunk or other obvious contamination on the filler cap), but then I didn't know how long whatever it was had sat in the tranny, so assumed it was simply ancient oil.

After getting a couple of hours practice riding on it today, I noticed that although the trans oil level seemed fine, the fresh 10w/40 was now black, and again appeared to have a slightly misty/cloudy layer on top.

A bit of searching on this forum leads me to suspect this could be a bad crank seal or seals. Other reasons for suspecting this are:

- The aftermarket exhaust silencer had a thick, greasy strip of black oil/gunge all the way along the bottom, like half-burnt oil had leaked out of the pipe and run down the bottom.

- when I washed the bike after getting it home, I noticed a small amount of oil/oily gunk on the bottom and front of the cases (under the expansion chamber area).

- Bike is quite smoky. Did about 4 hours riding on it home at 50:1 before I downloaded a spec sheet and switched to the recommended 32:1 (Putoline TTX fully synth). Don't know how it's been jetted, but it starts well and certainly doesn't lack power. No huge clouds you can't see through, but a definite white smoky haze whether cold or warm. It doesn't like neutral throttle very much and surges/diesels. Again, not sure if that's normal.

- Not very good fuel economy - about 25mpg at a guess.

- Coolant overflow tank is clear (appears to have been filled with water not antifreeze), so I doubt the _apparent_ oil contamination is coolant circuit.

- Bike may have been run over 5k miles with no rebuild, based on the removed odometer I was given with it (has KX forks and yokes, no speedo drive, so no real idea of the mileage/hours).

I'd appreciate some advice from you experienced KDX'ers - should I worry about this, or am I just being paranoid? Could this just be normal "cooking" of the transmission oil? Should I just stop riding it now? Bike seems to run great in terms of starting, power, light-switch throttle response. Obviously has run at least 6 hours without any sign that it's fouling the plugs. Slight rattle/buzz from the engine which I understand is normal KDX noise, no other weird vibration. The only other problem I noticed was clutch drag, which appears to be intermittent. (On my only other dirt bike, a '76 TY, this is often caused by not riding, causing the exposed friction plates to dry out, so it could just be the last owner hadn't ridden it much.)

Guess I'm not sure whether I should start pulling the motor and sending it off for a rebuild, or whether I should just keep riding and see if something obviously nasty develops.

Any suggestions?
 

Tom68

Member
Oct 1, 2007
407
0
You could check the clutch plates and make sure they haven't been fried put a filter on your crankcase breather (I put them on every bike that doesn't have one very important on 4 strokes) do a vacuum test for the crank seals.You don't want to be splitting cases unless its absolutely necessary.keep the oil fresh keep an eye on it and keep riding.
 

idl1975

Member
Aug 19, 2008
23
0
Tom68 said:
You could check the clutch plates and make sure they haven't been fried put a filter on your crankcase breather (I put them on every bike that doesn't have one very important on 4 strokes) do a vacuum test for the crank seals.You don't want to be splitting cases unless its absolutely necessary.keep the oil fresh keep an eye on it and keep riding.


Well, I think the clutch IS on its way out - drag aside, clutch performance is actually very good, but both the lever and the activator arm appear to be at maximum adjustment for wear.

Good idea on the vacuum test - might have my local shop do this, as I know they do lots of dirt bikes and will have the equipment. I guess the first thing is to determine if the gearbox is actually 'tight', and if it is, then worry about what it might be.
 

idl1975

Member
Aug 19, 2008
23
0
jth said:
Main seals, change both of them.

Follow up question, I guess. If the ignition-side seal is shot, it will suck in air, so I gather you end up with a very lean mixture and then piston/ring damage. If it's the clutch-side seal, you will get extra oil in the lower chamber (and fuel in the transmission oil). Will this actually damage the piston/cylinder, or just (i) create smoke and foul plugs and (ii) contaminate your clutch with fuel?

If the abov is true and I determine the dry seal is OK (no oil contamination inside the ignition cover), then presumably it would be safe (assuming I sacrifice the friction plates and don't mind a bit of smoke) to ride until I can schedule new seals and crank bearings?

Sorry if this is a dumb question - I'm used to 4 strokes. ;)
 

aussie smoker

Member
Aug 21, 2008
9
0
Suprised it smoked running a 50/1 ratio.
Recently did some work on 91 RMX that had been parked for 4 years .
Once started , noticed clutch plates were gummed as we could not get in to gear without stalling .
Dropped Trannie fluid and found it was black and low (200ml ).
Replaced with with 650ml of new fluid , went for a short ride until plates gummed again .
Dropping the new fluid noticed it had turned black almost immediately.
Got some advice on this and was told it was common for a wet clutch that had been sitting for some time .
Replaced fliud and has been running fine since .
I would keep running yours and checking your level as you go if it is not dropping then it most likely is not the clutch side seal .
 

Tom68

Member
Oct 1, 2007
407
0
Not sure if there's any such thing as a dumb question, can be dumb not to ask.I haven't seen a crank seal failure (suspected plenty). You're probably right about the ign side, can also have been soaked with CRC.Fuel shouldn,t hurt in the g'box,should evaporate as you go. Don't ride it if you,re not confident about the ign side seal.
 

idl1975

Member
Aug 19, 2008
23
0
Tom68 said:
Not sure if there's any such thing as a dumb question, can be dumb not to ask.I haven't seen a crank seal failure (suspected plenty). You're probably right about the ign side, can also have been soaked with CRC.Fuel shouldn,t hurt in the g'box,should evaporate as you go. Don't ride it if you,re not confident about the ign side seal.

Thanks guys! Just talked to a nearby MX shop before reading the last few posts, and coincidentally they reckoned the colour of the oil (the new fill has now gone slightly grey) meant clutch as well. He said if the plain plates are buggered / warped / stuck together, they often get shaved into the oil. So I'm feeling a little more hopeful that it's just a case of pulling the clutch cover, swapping in some new plates and resetting the cable/arm. :cool:

I will pull the ignition cover and check first of all, just in case.
 
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