jetting/spooge

[motox--]

Sorry for another thread on this, but I really need some help!

I have got my bike up to spec, air filter clean, carburettor clean and the float set correctly, new reeds (yes they do seal correctly) a top end with 2 rides on it and a repacked silencer with about 15 minutes of riding on it. There are no air leaks and the ignition is good.

Now, the bike is a 2000 Honda cr125. No toil air filter, 38mm Keihin PWK carb (from a 00 cr250 I think), boyesen power reeds, wiseco piston, FMF fatty pipe and powercore2 silencer and a br9es plug. It runs on 95 octance mixed at 25:1 with motul 800.

I have tried following spanky's, eric's and Zenith's jetting guide.

The bike has the air screw 1 3/4 turns out (thats where it idles fastest), 55 pilot jet, needle in the 3rd postion (middle) and a 165 main jet. Its about 35 degrees celcius (95 fahrenheit?) here at the moment.

I have tried 55, 50, 48 and 45 pilot jets. The 55 I still think may be a bit lean, but it seems right acording to spankys guide. ( I think its lean as it seems slow to pick up, a lean sympton according to 'Zenith').

Now when I play with the needle, I cant get it to bog, however it does pick up slower on the top two positions, and the other 3 feel the same.

Now heres my problem, the bike drools excessively out the back. It runs down the silencer, on my side plate, rear fender my swingarm everywhere! The pilot and needle seem to be right, however it still drools everywhere. My local shop said that the main jet was so big that the needle position would be rich regardless its position. Could this be true with a 175-170-165 sized main jets?

Thanks for taking the time to read this and if you could help me that would be great! if you need more info just ask.

Thanks

 

[rushy08]

i think 25:1 is really rich try dropping to 35-40:1, which is about average.

 

[motox--]

thanks for the response, but according to numerous posts on this site and on spankys guide, running less oil is only a band aid fix. He claims its 'all in the jetting'. I think in 'plug reading 101' Rich said that he ran his 01 cr125 at 18:1. If Im completely wrong feel free to put me in my place!

 

[rushy08]

oh na dude your probably 100% right, im just speaking from what i run and what other people have told me. My bike has a very similair setup to yours and i run it at 35:1 with no problems but yeh, ill leave it up to the smart peole to figure this one out

 

[cb23]

Hi motox -

I believe in the philosophy that you can run essentially as much oil in the fuel as you want, and HP never decreases. But the engine is safer. As long as you understand that more oil = running leaner, and jet accordingly, 25:1 is fine. I run 20:1 in my racing engine. . .

When I first went to 20:1, I too had a large amount of spooge. I run an oxygen sensor, and have since jetted significantly leaner, and the spooge has gone away.

It sounds to me like you are running too rich, but I would certainly trust the folks who gave you the jetting advice over my own advice. My carbs are quite different from yours, so I have no specific advice. Can you read the piston wash?

Jetting depends a large amount on which fuel you are using, particularly as you get closer to the edge. Are you using the same fuel as the advice givers?

 

[CaptainObvious]

A 55 pilot jet sounds LARGE. What were your results with the leaner pilot jets (50, 48 & 45)?

Engines usually don't "spooge" too much from the pilot jet. The needle makes most of the spooge. Try raising the clip another position higher.

Adjust your jets and needle for throttle control, and the spooge problem will fix itself.

Regarding oil ratio - 40:1 is a richer (fuel) mixture than 20:1. Most bikes spooge problem is a result of excessive mixture, not excessive oil. Choose a ratio and stick with it through the jetting process.

 

[MikeT]

Don't want to get into a big ratio thing here but you might want to start out with 32:1 which is what Honda says to go with. Second, I had a similar spooge problem with Maxima 927 and switched to Maxima SuperM and it burned much cleaner in my bike. It was really more of the RPM range I keep my bike in. Once you go with those two things then work on the jetting. 32:1 will keep your engine safe as far as oil goes. If you don't want to change oil brands I think the 32:1 will help give you a good starting point.

Second big point here is how do you ride your bike? Are you full throttle a lot (change the main jet) or are you riding in tight slow spots (work with the pilot).

 

[motox--]

thanks for the advice, I ran 32:1 previously, however after reading a few sheets on oil ratios by Gordon Jennings I switched to 25:1. The spooge didnt get any worse, and the power felt the same.

CaptainObvious, The 45 feels alot crisper, and it idles fastest at about 1 1/2 turns out. The reason I went to a richer pilot jet is because (according to Zenith) the bike is slow to pick up, and it juuuussstttt bogs doing his pilot jet test (which is apparently a lean symptom) So thats why I installed the 55 (and it still feels slow to pick up, and it just bogs sometimes)

The reason I run 95 octane and motul 800 is because they are pretty much the only good liquids ALL the bike/petrol shops have.
As I said I run 25:1 because of that test Gordon Jennings did, which to me made sense!

I ride MX however Im not very fast, I've been riding 1 year. I've never seen slower riders with 'spooge' problems though.

 

[motox--]

Alright I just did some more testing....

I installed the 45 pilot jet, and the bogging got worse...
With the 45 installed I put the choke on, and it didnt bog, it actually picked up really good!!

I then removed my side panels and seat (trying to get more airflow to the air filter) and the bogging got worse.

So (to me) this sounds like its lean. But on which circuit? The 45 with the choke on ran better than the 55.

 

[BSWIFT]

What elevation are you at? At that temperature, the air is very dense and humidity will also affect your jetting. I agree with the 32:1 ratio to set your jetting AND if you can get some race fuel that would help. The race fuel is more consistant.
Next, go to the factory jet sizes and needle positions. Most people have commented that the factory Honda jetting is real rich but again go to a known starting point.
If your elevation is above 4500' (less dense), you will need to increase the air ratio.
Using the guides that you are following, make adjustments to the pilot circuit first and then the main. The Capt. is probably right in that once each circuit is tuned, the spooge will decrease dramatically.
My 05 YZ250 ran like crap at 600' elevation at 75 degrees with stock jetting. I leaned both the pilot and the main 2 sizes before I got it right. At the same time, a buddy, with the same bike had no fouling problems and no spooge right off the show room floor. Probably the most important thing is keep your constants, constant and make one change at a time. Use a new plug as well for each plug reading. This gets a bit expensive but you will get the most accurate readings and will narrow in your jetting.

 

[motox--]

BSWIFT Im at 1886 ft.

The stock settings cant work! The 'stock' settings are:

Air screw 1 3/4 turns out
Pilot jet 50
needle 3rd clip
main jet 360

However since my bike has a different carb on it they cant be used! (well not the main jet anyway)

Like I said, with the choke on it runs great, so what circuit do I need to richen up?

 

[CaptainObvious]

That carb alone could be causing the lean bog. It flows a lot more air than the motor can pump. Big-bore carbs are great if you ride WOT all the time, but they are a real pain to dial-in for crisp throttle response.

 

[76GMC1500]

What's wrong with spooge?

 

[motox--]

CaptainObvious, I understand that it will never have good throttle response down low, however I dont understand why it spooges everywhere because of it.

I just did some more testing and the 45, 48 and 50 pilot jets are too lean. The 50 feels allllmooost right when the air screw is in all the way, however it still bogs a bit.

Whats wrong with spooge? EVERYTHING!!!! Its just such a pain to clean, and Im sick of people coming up and saying 'Your silencer is leaking, what ratio do you run', I reply 25:1 and there jaws hit the ground and say that running 35:1 or 40:1 will fix it.

 

[just_a_rider]

Leave the 55 pilot in and adjust your needle clip a notch twords the top, lowering your needle will lean it on the bottom, doing this might enable you to leave the 55 in. I to agree on 32:1 ratio, if you were using Maxima or another premium racing mix you would probably adjust your mix as those oils are expensive but are worth it. Mixing at higher ratio's like 50:1 your actualy losing horse power as the oil helps seal the rings to the cylinder + you up the risk of damage to your engine. Improper float settings can also make it run rich or lean.

 

[76GMC1500]

I guess people making fun of my silencer just doesn't get to me. Riding in silt or water seems to clean the spooge off the brake just fine, it's easy to clean off the silencer. After repacking my silencer and switching to synthetic oils, I no longer have much spooge at all. Maybe you just need to repack more often? Run that engine hard and keep it clear.

 

[motox--]

It now seems the 55 is too lean aswell because it only just bogs with the air screw all the way in. Maybe a 58 or 60 is needed!

I cant get it too bog with the needle clip, so maybe the needle itself is too rich? Can someone please tell me how the numbers on the needle relate to how rich/lean it is please!

CaptainObvious, your response got me thinking, would my engine (with its mods) breathe enough to make any top end gain with the 38mm carb?

If it doesnt make a gain should I just get a 36 or 34mm instead?

 

[CaptainObvious]

If it doesnt make a gain should I just get a 36 or 34mm instead?

The "mods" that you've done to the engine do not justify such a large bore carb. If you have access to a stock carb, give it a try.

 

[motox--]

well I didnt do any of the mods, sorry for asking another question, but what kind of carb should I go for? Are some better than others? The stock carb is a mikuni TMX.

 

[CaptainObvious]

Stock carbs are chosen by the OEM's because they offer the best compromise of all parameters. They are also chosen for value.

Tere is a lot of set-up information for stock carbs. Very little when you begin to experiment.

I'd locate a stock carb.

 

[motox--]

alright I'll see if I can find a stock carb. Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

If you are dead set on using that carb then quit thinking like its stock and start thinking about your bike! It sounds like it is fat but you are dumping more fuel, I am thoroughly confused!!! I don't recall one plug reading or pic! All the mods on this bike and you have the 2 dollar plug that belongs in a 72 enduro bike! May not be the sole problem but what the heck!! You said you read all this jetting imfo and your messing with off idle jetting(pilot) and complaining about the range from 1/4 to 3/4, thank you for the english conversion. I don't know what came stock on that bike, but the 07 125 has a 38 on it.

 

[motox--]

I am using larger pilot jets because it bogs worse with the smaller pilots I have (a lean condition), and the 55 is still slightly lean.

As for the needle position, I cannot get it too bog in the leanest position, so the needle itself is too rich Im guessing. So after a day of testing, this is how my bike runs best:

Air screw 1 1/4 turns out
55 Pilot jet (just too lean)
Needle in top position

As for the plug? The centre electrode and ground electrode are black, not oily, just black. The top of the threads are a very dark brown.

Im having problems with the closed to 1/4 throttle positions and 1/4 to 3/4, not just 1/4 to 3/4 as you thought.

Why should I spend $20 on a plug that I need to cut up anyway? $20 on a spark plug is stupid, I complain when I have too spend $7 on a plug (aussie dollars by the way)!!!

Whats the 07 cr125 got to do with anything? The engines are quite different AND I already said what the stock sizes are. Here are the stock specs again:

Air screw 1 3/4 turns out
Pilot jet 50
needle 3rd clip
main jet 360

I believe the bike is juuussstt to lean on the pilot jet, and the needle itself is too rich as I cannot get it too bog on the top position. I will try the stock carb and see what happens.

 

[motox--]

after reading on the forums some more, it seems that the Mikuni carbs are a nightmare to jet, is this true? Now Im thinking about getting a 36mm keihin. If you have a different opinion please let me know!

 

[jason33]

spooge could just be crappy oil not burning completely
try klotz 40:1-

25:1 is richer- it has more oil to fuel than 32-or 40:1

that much oil will definately get rid of the mesquitos!!
?? i wonder why its spooging??- :bang:

meskeetos? lol how ever its spelled-lol