juice clutch fluid

[Jaybird]

No argument here! :) Unless of course we get back on the drugstore oil.:confused:

I use atf because I have consolidated my fluids. I also use the atf in my forks and my gearbox.

 

[Bill Hibbs]

I know this is an old thread but I just installed a new braided clutch line from Enduro Engineering and the Recommended using ATF fluid on their installation instructions. They say it works better under heat. I had read in another magazine that you can use drug store mineral oil, specifically baby oil. They said it was the exact same thing but sented and a lot cheaper. Magura uses basic mineral oil that you can get from a drugstore. I ended up using Magura brand "Blood" mineral oil because I can get it from the bicycle shop. The use the same stuff in Mountain bike Brakes. I thought I'd do a search to see if anyone uses ATF as clutch fluid and this is where it got me. ATF seems to work for everything. ;)

 

[Jaybird]

I did the braided EE cable thing too. No comparison between the OEM and the braided cables. Well worth the money, IMO.
The only problem with the EE explanation of how to bleed after installation is, it won't work. :D gotta have a syringe.

 

[Moteaux]

Another thing is, the higher the viscosity the better the lubrication.

Are you completey sure about this statement. I think the Herschel-Bulkley hydraulic modeling theory just states that viscosity is a direct meausurement of a fluids resistance to flow. This is a relationship to fluid measured by the amount of time it takes the fluid to flow from a Marsh funnel and fill a quart cup, usually measured in seconds per quart.

If lubrication is better because the thicker fluids adheres to metal parts more readily or longer, then I concur. If you can give me more information I would like to learn more. This is in no way an argument against your statement, just wondering if you can shed more light on this for me.

 

[TexKDX]

Originally posted by yota
KTM advises use of mineral oil such as you would get in a drug store.

NOT TRUE. The european definition of mineral oil and the US version are not the same. The europeans mean that it came out of the ground, making it mineral oil.

The stuff from Walgreens may work, but what they intended is more akin to the light weight fork oil.

Also don't let this post confuse you with any non-Magura master and slave setups. AJP and Grameca use good old DOT3/DOT4 brake fluid.

 

[SFO]

slightly off the oil topic...

98mxc200.
The clutch actuation is lightswitch like. Is this a characteristic of the juice clutch? Or should I dig into the clutch pack for the cause?
It is a low hour bike but used mainly by beginners...
Thanks in advance,Bill

 

[Strick]

Bill - the juice clutch is actually even more progressive than a cable (IMO). It should not be like a light switch. The problem may be corrected as simply as a fluid change. That fluid is 4 (?) years old now.

 

[TexKDX]

Re: slightly off the oil topic...

Originally posted by SFO
98mxc200.
The clutch actuation is lightswitch like. Is this a characteristic of the juice clutch? Or should I dig into the clutch pack for the cause?
It is a low hour bike but used mainly by beginners...
Thanks in advance,Bill

SFO, if you are sure it is a low hours bike, then most likely your fiber plates are trashed from overheating/abuse.

I'd order up the clutch cover gasket and fiber plates, then tear into it. Take a good look at the metal plates and the clutch basket (for grooving where the metal plates meet it). If all looks good, then dress the metal plates a little bit with some fine emery paper or cloth and reassemble.

I'd go ahead and bleed the hydro clutch while you are at it too. Put a good quality synthetic in the tranny (like Mobil 1 15w50) and you should be good to go.

 

[Strick]

Good point Tex

Tex brings up a good point. My add'l thought is not the plates though, but a notched clutch basket. First change to clutch oil - it needs it and it is easy (get a syringe). Then if it doesn't work take Tex' advice and open up the side case. Actually, if the bike is rideable I would change the oil to Mobil 1 15W-50 first. If those 2 things don't help inspect the clutch. The notching I am referring to is on the fingers of the basket. If they are badly notched the plates will not release until the pressure removed at the end of the clutch lever (fully released). If you take the time to file the notches (they don't have to be completely eliminated, but must be smooth) you may indeed regain the 'true' clutch feel and performance again.

Let us know what you find out!

 

[FLBob]

So, where does American mineral oil come from?:confused:

 

[Moteaux]

Mineral Oil

Without mentioning any names so as not to humiliate or incriminate anyone. A local KTM dealer told me to use mineral oil purchased at the drug store and they kept a large bottle of the same in their shop. Just my 2 cents. I am using an aftermarket Magura on my 250F and still using the same bottle of mineral oil that was purchased when I had my 300 EXC. To date no problems... clutch works great! Should I be worried?:ugg:

Motohead00

 

[TexKDX]

Re: Mineral Oil

Originally posted by motohead00
Without mentioning any names so as not to humiliate or incriminate anyone. A local KTM dealer told me to use mineral oil purchased at the drug store ....
Motohead00

Motohead, if you are worried about pimpin' me, don't worry. I've got the skin of a Kodiak bear :D Must be the Texas sun.

As far as your KTM dealer having a big jug of baby oil, well hey there are alot of people that have success using this stuff. No-one said it won't work, but what I am saying is that the KTM manual calls for oil that comes out of the ground - mineral oil in euro terms. Light weight fork oil is the most equivilent alternative to what comes in the little bottle labeled "Magura" - minus the gold plating of course.

Your KTM dealer wouldn't be the first dealer who was less than informed on some subject. Just ask one of our local dealers whose mechanic set the fork oil level on an '00 520 with the legs EXTENDED instead of compressed... or the same dealer who charged my bud 3 hours labor and kept the bike for 3 weeks trying to diagnose a lighting problem unsuccessfully. In 10 minutes with a $17 Radio Shaft multimeter I diagnosed the problem as a bad regulator/rectifier. AC juicie innie, no DC juicie outtie. Pretty basic stuff. Or tried to charge another bud $1400 for a new gas tank (painted and installed) to fix a "gas leak" on his K75 which turned out to just be a loose filler neck overflow hose.

Bottom line - there are people who work in the business and there are people who know their stuff. Sometimes the two intersect, and you have dealer personnel that know their stuff. Don't assume it though, and go outside of the dealer network to other independents and users of the product when diagnosing a situation if need be.

Strick - back on subject, maybe I did not stress the point enough to verify the low hours on the bike. If it is a KTM basket with reasonably low hours, it should not be notched. On my KDX I turned the clutch into an on/off switch in one long muddy enduro. The basket was fine, but the plates were effected by too much abuse. That's why I said go after the plates.

Your idea of starting with the easy stuff (new fluid and tranny oil) makes sense; I just took it for granted that the basic maintenance items were done first. Since the bike is still rideable, I'm an advocate of getting the wear item parts ahead of time so that there is no downtime waiting to get these and the gasket to put it back together.

Let's go ridin'!!

 

[Anssi]

Re: Direct from KTM 2002 RFS manual

Originally posted by Strick
Here is my take; don't use drug store oil (Mineral hydraulic fluid), and don't use brake fluid. Where do you get biodegradable hydraulic fluid?

In my manual above the statement you posted it says that one example of a biodegradeable hydraulic oil is Shell Naturelle HF-E15, so I suppose it would be easiest to ask your local Shell station.

 

[yota]

I have used mineral oil from ekerd drug store since 98 with no problems at all.

 

[Bill Hibbs]

Well, I called Magura just for giggles and of course they recommended their "blood" mineral oil. They said it is thinner than a drug store mineral oil but it would work in a pinch. The only other fluid they actually tested and have approved (proved not to damage seals) was Finish Line Shock oil. They Recommended 5wt. They didn't have much info on the ATF although they know people use it and didn't have anything bad to say about it.

 

[SFO]

Thank you

For your replies.
I suspected I would have to dig into it, mbut will try the easy stuff first.
BTW, it is a mxc with stock gearing. First seems really tall, which might be part of the problem as well.
Any suggestions for woods gearing on the 200mxc?
Thanks,Bill

 

[ktm_man]

Tex-KDX,
You are exactly right. "Mineral" is a natural substance from the ground (i.e., gold, copper, coal, and of course OIL, etc.) as oppose to synthetic.

 

[Montana300]

For my '01 300EXC I have found that ATF works best for me. I had tried 5w fork oil to solve my intermittent clutch pressure loss to no avail. It is theorized that I was actually overheating the clutch fluid and causing it to boil thus briefly losing clutch pressure. Anyway, I now use ATF and have not had the clutch overheating problem. Consequently this was not a problem on my '99 300EXC. I will be milling a finned slave cylinder this winter as time permits to protect the cylinder and to dissipate some heat :D