KDX 200 top end time - anything to address KIPS Rattle while its apart

[KTM Mike]

I am about to tear down my son's 99 KDX 200 to do a top end rebuild (this will be the first time we have had it apart - though it has had a top end before). It has the normal, or perhaps louder than typical KIPS rattle going on. I have done some searches - cant seem to find any real fixes... Is there anything I can do while we have it apart to address the KIPS rattle?

 

[Green Hornet]

The KIPS Rattle is there to stay. How much oil are you using in the tranny??

 

[legendboy]

I just rebuilt one motor and took another one apart.

I'll tell ya that when i put my mechanics steathascope on my motor the noise sure sounds like its comming from the flywheel side of the bottom end and not the kips system.

There isn't really anything in the kips components that would make that noise. There is practically no play in my exhaust valves, idler or the govenor rod.

Also the fact that the noise is only at idle and goes away as the revs go up pretty much eliminate the kips system since it isn't doing anything when the engine is at idle...

I too wanted to solve the mystery lol but i think the kdx clap is something clanking around in the bottom end at idle.

 

[Green Hornet]

Thats the sound of the beast.......

 

[KTM Mike]

I understand all KDX's do this KIPS rattle (some seem worse than others...this one has always been on the worse side in my opinion) - and I understand it really is no big deal - I was looking for perhaps some little trick or tip that I might do upon reassembly that might address it's root cause. FWIW - I run 1000 ccs of oil - the added volume helps quiet it down.

To me, while it might be technically OK and not an issue - there is something slapping on something else that causes this noise - I would think that somewhere out there, someone has identified what those somethings are and maybe found some way to address it.

 

[Green Hornet]

There is no known fix for it that I have ever heard of. The only thing that can be done is add "A Full Quart" to the tranny. But you have done that already. E-mail Fredette, he may have an idea....

 

[Green Hornet]

It is possible that during servicing the GOVERNOR PIN Broke Off & is now rattling in the Clutch Area. Has this bike been serviced by a previous owner??? If it has I would inspect the area I mentioned..NOT MENTIONED in the Service Manual, is the KIPS Actuator Rod needs to be held with a wrench, when removing the CLAW Bolt (which loosens Clock-Wise)Others my self included have broken the Governor Pin doing this. The Governor Pin is located forward of the Clutch, but you will need to remove the casing to get a good look...

 

[84sportguy]

Ok , not trying to steel this thread, but 1000 cc of oil. This does not cause anyharm on the seals, with the extra oil??

 

[Kwakasaki]

Ok , not trying to steel this thread, but 1000 cc of oil. This does not cause anyharm on the seals, with the extra oil??

I have always questioned that and have tried multiple brands at multiple levels. What I found was with a full quart at full throttle the bike wouldnt rpm as high and I could tell a difference in the power. I found the happiest medium at 800cc. I am sure I am going to get pounded on this as before and am not going to debate it. The factory has a recommended level for a reason. Research it and find out why. Also there are those that are going to say there is no way it can effect the crank because its a two stroke. If I am not mistaking, what is the clutch mounted too and it IS effected by a larger volume or weight of oil. Anything that effects the inertia of the crankshaft, no matter 2 or 4 stroke, has a factor on power. Just my thought of the day, RIDE SAFE all! :nener:

 

[84sportguy]

Thx for the reply

 

[John Harris]

I am old and slow, but on my 4th KDX. I agree with Kawasaki above. It may be my imigination, but I think too much oil affets peak rpm and otherwise robs power and all for a little noise control that is less than the exhaust. I run a level barely in the sight glass. Don't ask how many ccs--just hold bike up straight and add oil till it barely can be seen in the sight glass. Ride safe--John

 

[Green Hornet]

I use what the specs call for. Others including Fredette use a Full Quart. The rattle does not bother me, its the nature of the KDX, Plus my HEARING SUCKS.

 

[KTM Mike]

FWIW - the question I asked was not about what amount of oil to use - my question was if anything "mechanical" could be done to address it as I would have the system all torn apart anyhow.

But.... As the crank case is vented - any upwards variance (within reason) would not matter when it comes to seals etc. Any extra pressure - if any, vents outside, maybe even spewing oil out. (which does not happen with just 200 ccs extra) Where will harm come from them? If the bike does not rev the last 100 RPM (which was merely an anecdotal observation) - does it REALLY matter? In woods riding (which is what we do) - rarely, if EVER is the last 100 (or 500 for that matter) RPM going to matter. And FWIW - I think I might trust the advice of a 26(?) time ISDE rider such as Fredette ( I suspect he alone has logged more hours on a KDX than 10 of use combined) ...BUT... oil is not what I was looking for info on.



So far - no "mechanical" fixes - so i will just button it back up like it was originally.

 

[Green Hornet]

Was the KIPS Governor Broken Mike?

 

[KTM Mike]

Was the KIPS Governor Broken Mike?

pardon my lack of uh... "parts name familiarity" - have not looked back at the service manual yet - the "governor" - is which part?

Everything power valve related in the cylinder appears find and dandy - rather carboned up and nasty, but notthing broken. I suspect you are refering to the part that drives it though from the clutch area ? The rod that angles out forward and up to where it attaches to the cylinder seems fine...and I did manage to remove that reverse thread nut with no issue (held the claw part with a wrench to assure nothing broke). Have not tore into the clutch side yet.

I did have a conversation with Fredette today (I was exchanging cylinders with one he had) - asked about KIPS - he said no fixes he knows of.

 

[Green Hornet]

Its the PIN that seats in the Coil Spring, just forward of the clutch. Its what the Actuator Rod connects to in the casing....

 

[OldDirtKDX]

What noise?

I think I've found a cure for the imfamous KDX clutch rattle as well as the KIPS rattle. After an inspection to make certain that all the parts were in good shape and adding somewhere between the factory recommended oil and a full quart. I just ride WOT and the noise just seems to dissapear :laugh: Since I only noticed the noises at, or near idle I just don't idle much. Cured

 

[Kwakasaki]

FWIW - the question I asked was not about what amount of oil to use - my question was if anything "mechanical" could be done to address it as I would have the system all torn apart anyhow.

But.... As the crank case is vented - any upwards variance (within reason) would not matter when it comes to seals etc. Any extra pressure - if any, vents outside, maybe even spewing oil out. (which does not happen with just 200 ccs extra) Where will harm come from them? If the bike does not rev the last 100 RPM (which was merely an anecdotal observation) - does it REALLY matter? In woods riding (which is what we do) - rarely, if EVER is the last 100 (or 500 for that matter) RPM going to matter. And FWIW - I think I might trust the advice of a 26(?) time ISDE rider such as Fredette ( I suspect he alone has logged more hours on a KDX than 10 of use combined) ...BUT... oil is not what I was looking for info on.



So far - no "mechanical" fixes - so i will just button it back up like it was originally.

:bang: Just read a topic "04 KDX220" and Fredette recommended .850. To me the extra rpm is very improtant as I look for very bit of hp that can be obtained. I keep my bikes wound tight and on the pipe. We do ride alot of tracks too so maybe it didnt apply to your preference of riding, sorry. Just trying to be helpful with the information I had experienced. Hope everything worked out on your KDX. Be safe! :ride: :ride:

 

[geoffro]

go mike

I agree with you KTM MIke,if we can send people into space,we can find a cure for the kdx powervalve rattle.I am buying a kdx 200 shortly and will be searching high and low for a cure.I am a qualified auto technician and these are the type of challenges I love.It also helps that the TT members put their thoughts together(that is why this is a GREAT site!)

 

[rus23]

This rattle you all speak of, is it sort of like piston slap on a worn out cylinder? I have been hearing a sound from this thing at low to mid rpm, and have assumed it was the piston. Also, the kips does not seem to be working, this thing really has no bottom end, the power hits violently just off idle and makes it rather hard to ride in tight spots.
Any ideas?

 

[kid1293]

this is not a piston or cylinder issue i sent out my cylinder to be replated and installed new piston and i thought that was the cure for this noise.well $275 later and all i got was a new top end.noise still there oh well move on to the next part!

 

[texascycle]

It does sound like piston slap to me, except it does it at the wrong times for a worn cylinder / piston. In other words, my 03 200 runs perfect in everyway except for that noise. I had gotten used to it and forgot all about it until my brother picked up a very clean 04 220r that looks brand new. His motor purrs like a milk fed kitten ... now I am annoyed by mine again :(

I would love to find "the cure" but I am not convinced it is anything to be overly concerned about.

 

[sr5bidder]

hate to dig this old topic up but does everone else observe this:
ok engine @ idle in neutral kips rattle noise
now pull in the clutch still rattles but "some part" of the rattle goes away... let clutch out the deeper rattle sound reappears

 

[KTM Mike]

hate to dig this old topic up but does everone else observe this:
ok engine @ idle in neutral kips rattle noise
now pull in the clutch still rattles but "some part" of the rattle goes away... let clutch out the deeper rattle sound reappears

SR5 - what you are hearing (diff in sound clutch in vs out), is not KIPS related - rather it is simply clutch basket rattle. As the fingers on the clutch basket and plates wear slightly, the increased clearance allows for some wiggle room and rattle. Pulling the clutch lever in makes things move such reduced rattle. KTMs are well known for clutch basket rattle. The proper fix for that would be new basket and plates.

 

[sr5bidder]

strange though it seems the noise is in cadence with the kips noise.
I need to change plates and discs in the clutch anyhow (got a bit of drag and cant push with engine off and in gear with clutch pulled) I look at that soon.