Instaurare

Member
Sep 22, 2003
60
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Years before I got my KDX, I owned a Honda TL 250 thumper with extremely low gearing, which worked really well on tight trails in the woods, and I would like to duplicate that low gearing on the KDX. What size front sprocket would be recommended, and how difficult is the switch over? Would the chain need to be shortened, or is there sufficient adjustment available in the cam to compensate? Thanks for any input.
 

1kdx220man

Member
Oct 6, 2003
5
0
I'm running a 12 on the front of my 220, stock chain. and you wouldn't want it geared any lower that that, it works awesome on tight trails
 

Danny Stein

Member
Nov 12, 2002
53
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you really don't need a special tool to take the counter shaft sprocket off but it makes it a whole hell of alot easier. Do your-self a favor and order a set of reversible circlip pliers (inner & outter $20.00) then you can change the sprocket in about 10 minutes tops. Once the rear wheel is removed I can do a whole drivetrain with new chain in about 30 minutes. Real easy but remember if you change your gearing it's a good idea to do the whole drivetrain or else you will wear un evenly..
 

Instaurare

Member
Sep 22, 2003
60
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So it seems to me that all I need to do is loosten the rear wheel, then remove the circlip and the sprocket comes right out. Is that all there is to it?

Years ago when I had a Honda TL250, it was so low geared that I could just put it in first gear, let it idle, and slowly walk right beside the bike as it chugged thru some very dense forest. Think I will be able to do the same here by changing to a 12-tooth front, or will I need to also install a larger rear sprocket?
 

canyncarvr

~SPONSOR~
Oct 14, 1999
4,005
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The kdx won't tic-tic along on the bottom like a 4-stroke. You can make it run close enough to that to get most any job done..but it's never going to be 'exactly like' some other completely different (4-stroke) bike.

Try the 12-47 combo first. Changing to a 49+ will likely call for a 110 link chain (108 is oem). ....imo

You don't say if your bike is a 200 or 220. The two act considerably different. The 200 won't have anywhere near the bottom end pull the 220 does...without a number of changes.

Sorry to bang on the same old drum over and over...but a proper jetting setup will be a huge benefit both on the bottom end pull of things, and the upper end scream of things.

Well...220's don't do a whole lot of upper end screaming....but you get the idea.

Have fun!!
 

farmerj

Member
Dec 27, 2002
115
0
Instaurare,

The TL 250 was a trials bike, right? I wish I had one of those "in the stable" for those 1/2 mph dense forest days (on private land, I might add - most public riding areas aren't too fond of us breaking our own trails, from what I understand...)

The KDX won't "chug along" at idle quite like the 4-stroke. So don't expect to be able to make the KDX to be like the TL - but it works well , and is much more versatile. You'll like the 12T sprocket - and you might ask for a Steahly flywheel weight for Christmas. Again, it won't make the engine like a TL (or Yam. TTR) at the very low end, but it is a noticeable improvement - and you've got a bike with snap , and the ability for speed! The more I ride my KDX, the more I like it!

Yeah...what canyncarvr said!
 

canyncarvr

~SPONSOR~
Oct 14, 1999
4,005
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To answer your question, 'So it seems to me that all I need to do is loosten the rear wheel, then remove the circlip and the sprocket comes right out. Is that all there is to it?'

Yes. Well, and remove the chain guard for access to the sprocket (if we need to include all the steps ;) )

Then re-adjust your chain to spec with the new 12T.
 
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Instaurare

Member
Sep 22, 2003
60
0
I thank everyone for the helpful advice given. Once I raised the frame to allow the arms full droop, the chain was easy to remove, without having to open the master link. And that 12 tooth is great---it gives me the equivalent of one full additional gear lower, with the only drawback of removing my tallest gear, which I never used anyway. It was a very fair tradeoff. I notice already the advantages in climbing more slowly, although, as was mentioned, it does not behave in exactly the same chugging way as my old 4 stroke trials bike. And yes, it is a 220, and I really do enjoy the snap of acceleration that is easily the equal of the old Honda XL500 which I owned for a time after the trials bike. The only thing I would like to change, now that the gearing is done, is to somehow get the bike lowered without messing up the suspension. I am going to substitute low density for high density foam in the seat, and I read the search pages on this subject, but it seems that there are drawbacks in the other mods, such as changing the fork setting. I stand at 5' 8.5", and the bike is easy to mount and ride, but what has troubled me is finding myself stalled on a steep incline and being forced to keep balance until I restart on uneven terrain----I feel like the bike is almost getting away from me. Any suggestions? I will probably add an additional sole to my boots to get a little extra height, but I do wish this KDX were a bit lower.
 

Instaurare

Member
Sep 22, 2003
60
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Farmerj, is that Stealhy flywheel weight an easy install? Does it do a really good job of improving the low end performance? I am definitely interested.
 

farmerj

Member
Dec 27, 2002
115
0
The Steahly flywheel weight is a "bolt-on" item that is very easy to install - and easy to remove should you desire to do so. Your second question -

Does it do a really good job of improving low end performance?

- is more difficult to answer. It depends upon what you mean by "a really good job" and what your expectations are. It will help make the bike less likely to stall. Here's some good reading for you -

<http://dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?threadid=29670&highlight=200+vs+220>

You'll find some more information if you do a search for "flywheel weight".

Some guys really like 'em. Some guys don't. I am in the "really like" camp!
 

canyncarvr

~SPONSOR~
Oct 14, 1999
4,005
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Another 'really like' from the steahly camp!

Mine's great! What I like best is the huge improvement in keeping the bike running on downhills. No longer does just a touch of the brake at the wrong time (about the time you get a bit of air over a rock/root) kill the engine. Try one! I have no experience with the 220 (I thought it had more bottom end than you'd know what to do with...), but I certainly like it on my 200.

re: lowering.

Downside? What would that be?

At 5'8"+, you should be fine. Some saddle time will sort that out. Still, if you want a bit of a drop with the additonal benefit of improved shock leverage, a set of devol pull rods should work fine. Note that KX bolts are required with their rods.

If you're 200lbs or so, they might make the rear spring a bit too light.

BTW...if you haven't set the shock spring sag yet, you should do it now. That will tell you if the spring rate is correct for your weight, too. Don't bother doing it if you're buying some pull rods, cuz you'll have to do it over again after you put the new rods on (in the 'longer' position).
 

mnnthbx

Member
Apr 1, 2003
301
0
As for lowering, go to koubalink.com
I just had to lower my wifes CRF, and the kouba link works VERY well. It will maintain correct suspension action, is fairly cheap (I think $75 for a KDX), and easy to install. I could not be happier with the results of my wifes bike.
 

canyncarvr

~SPONSOR~
Oct 14, 1999
4,005
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I intentionally left out kouba because their kits lower the bike more than I'd think a 5'8" rider would want. Guess that's his choice, 'eh?

Besides, their links aren't nearly as pretty as devol's............;)
 

John Harris

Member
Apr 15, 2002
552
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You may know this if you have read previous posts archives, but you can raise the fork tubes about 1/2" in the triple clamps with no ill effects. Then set the sag correctly and remove the tool kit from the rear fender. I am only 5'7" (short inseam also) on a good day and I do fine even without the special links nor the seat foam lowered.
 

Instaurare

Member
Sep 22, 2003
60
0
Thanks again to everyone for your comments. The link idea is something definitely worth looking into, and it won't have any negative effects on the suspension? I weigh about 160, around 170 with full riding gear. I have no idea what the bike is set up for in terms of the typical rider as it come from the factory, but I would guess that it is prepared for someone heavier than I am. I have heard mention of setting the sag, is there a page on the forum with detailed instructions on how to do it? Raising the forks one half inch seems to be an easy mod----just loosten the bolts, and push down on the bars? One thing that came as a surprise was the high costs of steering dampers, which appeared to be a worthwhile modification until I saw the prices. My old Kawasaki 750 triple had a friction style knob damper, if I remember correctly, but I haven't seen that type in a long time.
 

mnnthbx

Member
Apr 1, 2003
301
0
The lowering link won't hurt anything. In fact they claim it helps suspension action. My wifes CRF 150 feels very solid under me (210lb.) Tke Kouba link comes in a few different lowering options I think. I spoke to a man on the pnone named Norm. He owns it I think. He was one of the most helpful people I've ever delt with. The # is at koubalink.com. As for looks vs. the Devol, I've never seen one of their's in real life, but the kouba is some great machine work, and anodized gold. I hope this helps out.
 

Mike McGlade

Member
Jan 13, 2000
57
0
You mentioned how awkward re-starting in uneven terrain can be and another item you may want to consider is the shorty kickstart lever from Fredette. I installd one on my 220 and it makes that task much easier in those tricky situations. BTW, I'm 5'9".
 

Instaurare

Member
Sep 22, 2003
60
0
Mike, I'll check out that kickstart, sounds like it could be of help. Mnnthbx, I looked at the koubalink site and I'm going to give Norm a call today. They are inexpensive and seem to only enhance the suspension, not hamper it. Now, if I use the koubalinks on the rear, to keep the front in balance should I raise the forks one half inch? Will this have any significant effect on the steering over rough terrain or steep hills----in short, will the bike track in a less stable way? I had thought about a steering damper, but the high cost makes me wonder if it is worth the expense. And with at least one of them you need to modify the headlamp.
 

mnnthbx

Member
Apr 1, 2003
301
0
I slid the forks up to even out the front end, and noticed no additional squirliness or problems. I would think the lowered triple clamp might shorten wheel base 1/4", but you would just gain that amount back when the swing arm becomes more parallel. Let us know how the link turns out on the KDX. One other thing. His standard shipping (included in the price),got to my house in two days. Just a nice bonus.
 

canyncarvr

~SPONSOR~
Oct 14, 1999
4,005
0
General consensus is the kdx suspension in its stock form is 'set' for about 130# of rider in the front, 180# in the back.

With longer pull rods, the shock leverage º is changed..resulting in a slightly 'softer' spring. So..the 5.0kg (if it's oem) should be good enuf. Again, with the race sag properly set, the free sag measurement will tell you if your shock spring rate is correct.

The forks still need some help, though in the way of springs for your weight, a preload of reasonable amount (I don't think the 35mm or so of the oem setup is reasonable) and a correct clicker setup.

Search this site for what you want to know. Many times sag setting has been discussed.

re fork height and..: ' Will this have any significant effect...'

Yes. The higher the forks are in the clamps the less trail you have..the less stable at high speeds the front-end will be. Whether you notice it or not is dependent on what you notice.....but it's a fact nonetheless.

And, yes, it will sharpen the turning ability also...make it 'quicker'.

Certainly this is true only if you are lowering the front in relation to the rear. If the rear is lowered somehow, resetting the frontend to the same relative position it was in the first place will have no effect. Use some exaggeration of motion to get the idea of this if it's not clear.

Don't put a new kicker on a worn out knuckle. The shorter lever certainly makes it easier to reach on the downstroke in awkward situations.

Steering dampers are terrific. The kdx isn't as tweaky as some (like bikes from the orange side), still it's likely that once you use one, you won't ride a bike without one.

If you're going to raise the forks in the clamps, I'd recommend putting the bike on a stand (unload the front), loosen the clamps and move the forks up by hand. You will be able to set them to the exact height you want that way a lot easier than 'pushing on the bars.'
 
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mnnthbx

Member
Apr 1, 2003
301
0
I just noticed they make three links for the KDX. Here's some stuff from there page. Instaurare, what did you end up doing?

Dealer/User General Info for Kawasaki/KDX200/220
(Links KDX1, 2, & 3)
We build 3 lengths of the Kouba Links for the 1995-2003 KDX200/220. These are identified and engraved KDX1, KDX2, and KDX3.
The KDX1 links are primarily for aggressive riders that want better performance from their rear suspension.

The KDX3 links are more for lowering purposes for lighter and not so aggressive riders.

The KDX2 links fall somewhere in between performance and lowering.

After the installation of any of the KDX Kouba Links, we recommend changing the race sag (amount of vertical travel of the rear axle from no weight to bike-weight plus rider weight) to 3 inches versus Kawasaki's recommended 100mm (approx. 4 inches). This allows the travel to start out from a plusher (more leverage) position of the suspension arc and still maintain the same laden height and geometry with the KDX1 links.

The installation instructions that come with the Kouba Links have the amounts the 3 different KDX links will lower the rear if the 4 inches of race sag are used. From these amounts and the sag used, you can determine how much the front should be lowered if the stock geometry is desired.

Example: If the links you have chosen are the KDX2's, they will lower the rear by 1.625 inches if the 4 inches of sag is used, thus the front would also need to be lowered 1.625 inches to stay close to the stock geometry. If the race sag is set at 3 inches rather than 4 inches, then the front would only need to be lowered .625 inches to maintain the stock geometry. We now have only lowered the laden (bike weight plus rider weight) rear height .625 inches, but the no weight rear height will be 1.625inches lower.

The KDX is an excellent bike for ISDE, enduro, and trail riding with its stock geometry, but if more open high speed terrain is in the majority, then you may want to consider setting the rear a little lower and/or setting the front a little higher than stock. Remember if the front pushes, most likely the bike is too high in the front and/or too low in the rear. If the front knifes or turns too quickly, then the opposite may be the cause.

Max. weight recommendations with the stock 5.0KG/mm rear spring:

Stock Links/4 race sag = Max. weight 250 lbs.

KDX1 Links/3 race sag = Max. weight 210 lbs.

KDX2 Links/3 race sag = Max. weight 170 lbs.

KDX3 Links/3 race sag = Max. weight 130 lbs.


These weights are just a guideline and are subtracted from as the race sag is increased and/or riding speeds increase.

To convert 5.0 kg's/mm to lbs./inch, multiply by 56 = 280 lbs./inch.
 

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