Knee Braces

[Okiewan]

Settle down boys, sheez. :confused:

To answer your question.... Joe is heading in the right direction, ie; you may have not been around long enough to know this; ... the companies that advertise or more specifically post here a lot, are in fact here because I asked them to be. I (yes, me, the one with no engineering degree), use their products, believe in their products and service.

NONE of the boot companies advertise here and yes NONE of the knee brace MFGs advertise here. None of us directly associated with DRN will review a product from an advertiser. If a member trashes an advertiser... so be it.

Contrary to popular belief, for example, Asterisk is not an advertiser. They have paid ZERO dollars for advertising. They get exposure on the site for two reasons. 1) I am convinced that knee braces are as important as helmets and they make the best bang-for-the-buck brace out there, bar none. 2) They are extremely helpful to our members, they are here all the time to answer questions and even offer a discount for DRN'ers. Their customer service is top notch. I consider it a partnership, not a business deal.

Comparing us to MXA is a pretty low blow, but I don't expect everyone to know our motives. A lot of folks like to guess, like to think they have the inside info, know my business plan, etc. I get a kick out of reading some of the stuff, but I don't hold it against anyone (well, there are exceptions).

Like it says at the top of our reviews, we're just common, everyday riders passing along impressions/opinions. If people want to make it into some conspiracy, oh well... makes for an entertaining read.

Now, everyone has a choice of rather or not to read, believe or otherwise agree with our reviews. Take what you want from it, even if it's nothing at all.
Just please don't question our ingetrity.

 

[John.T]

Okie I am not sure how I came off there, but I hope you do understand I just wanted to get an idea, but I TOTALLY agree with you, you seem like a straight forward good guy! You don't like to see people get jerked around etc... I like your buisness thoughts and now I understand the whole asterisk thing, I am glad you are looking out for people and reccomending knee braces, Before I found this sight I thought knee braces were for pro's only! Now as soon as I get the cash I will be getting a set a.s.a.p, This is why I asked how things were working and unlike the others you read the post and responded like a gentleman! No yelling or being a dink etc... And this proves to me that you are sincere in looking out for others , and letting us know what's best! I thank you!

ps, Thump, follow these steps, breath in, breeth out, breeth in, breeth out now count backwards from 5.4.3.2.1 there feel better:confused:
pps, the mXA thing was just a joke !! don't worry Id never stoop to that low!

 

[Joe Turner]

Originally posted by John.T
Well mister litterate if you read my post you would understand I was simply asking IF he had denied people etc

If my 10th grade English teacher Mrs. Lowen were to read the following quote from you, I think she would consider it a statement not a question.

Originally posted by John.T
But I am sure there is some good reason why all this happens DUH they are your sponswers they pay to get plugged and that's what you do!!!!

In fact she might even consider it an acqusation.

ac·cu·sa·tion (ky-zshn) n.
An act of accusing or the state of being accused.
A charge of wrongdoing that is made against a person or other party.

... but then I checked your profile and saw you are a parts guy so I guess you can be excused. I've never met one yet that had a clue. Any chance that being clueless is a pre-requisite for the job?

 

[John.T]

I am a parts guy for Dell computers, not a part shop! Way to go smart guy, And your profile states you ride A polini? So I take it you are some spoiled little brat and daddy bought you your bike? And your job? Oh right you have none listed ? So I take it yours is good! lol
anyways this is off topic if you want to argue go stand in a mirror:D

 

[raider]

Boy, I didn't realize that a question about knee brace alternatives would be such a sensitive topic. I do appreciate everyone's insight into the various alternatives and it has helped me to make my mind up. It seems like for the nominal increase in price, the asterisk braces would be worth it.

Okie, you mentioned a discount for DRN members from asterisk. What kind of discount, and how do I go about getting it? I will probably be ordering them in a couple of weeks once my quadriceps have built back up to normal (it's amazing how quick muscles begin to atrophy!) so I can get some valid measurements of my legs.

 

[John.T]

Correct me if I am wrong but I think they pay for shipping, which these days is generous!! Shipping is nuts! when you order them just tell them you are a DRN member and maybe Billywho will confirm it, but Im sure okie will correct me if I am wrong!

 

[Rich Rohrich]

You are getting off the topic JohnT.

Let's summarize. You hang around here for three weeks and you accuse Okie and the rest of the guys who provide you a free source of entertainment of impropriety. Good work. I'm sure you'll be embraced by the community.
Okie might not take this stuff personal, but when some nobody from nowhere wanders in and accuses my friends of this kind of crap I DO TAKE IT PERSONAL As far as I'm concerned you can pucker up and kiss my butt.

Welcome to the wonderful state of persona non grata

 

[John.T]

I NEVER accused anyone I asked if this stuff was true, and I wanted to know more because I was new, He told me that asterik(sp) didnt even sponswer!!! I asked a simple question just wanted to double check , I wanted to know how sponswers work etc.. and he told me, I never once accused okie of anything, so Rich do you wanna pucker up first?
So Rich I am not welcome because I asked a simple question? i think you need to give your head a shake!

 

[BillyWho]

They have paid ZERO dollars for advertising.

Okie, then what was that check for a $1.50 for? LOL. And the fact you said I HAVE to be on here all the time or I'm cut:p .

John.T/raider, we do pay for shipping for DRN members for ground UPS which is 2-4 days typically anywhere in the U.S. And welcome to one of a few great knee brace debates on here, ugly at times, but also informational and entertaining as well. I LOVE this place, as you will too I'm sure!

 

[John.T]

Billy how exactly do I get correct measurements? Do you send A kit?

 

[Jaybird]

:)
Please, I know I said I would not post again on this issue, but I feel I owe a bit of clarity to all at DRN.

I purchased my Asterisk braces awhile back and have been totally satisfied with the construction, design, fit of them. Best descriptive I had after first ride was "ingenious". I was also impressed by the friendly customer service and shipping as promised.
The Asterisk brace is by far one of the best protection devices on the market, and for the price, seems to me in a leauge by itself.
I've felt that way even before I owned the brace, and wearing RS6's.
(yes, some of us have done research before the review thing was done)

I do have a habit of pulling on someones chain. Especially if you tug back real hard!:) My whole argument stems from the review. I had a beef with the way it was conducted and it was discussed extensively between Thump, Okie, and I. I was totally satified with the answers that I was given, save for one area. The RS6 was thrashed about like a deralict at a church social, and I didn't agree with it.

There are two shcools of thought on knee braces (actually three if you count Dr's opinions). One is the rigid bracing idea. Cti seems to be the milestone by which these types of braces are measured. With rigid bracing, and correct me if I'm wrong Mr Frank, the brace in fact gives such ample protection to the knee joint that in a full out terrible crash one may not recieve any damage to the knee, per say, but they can have other bone breaks and ligament tears as a result....albeit far less painful and potentialy career damaging than any knee injury.
Flexible bracing, on the other hand, provides a less rigid protection of the knee joint. Which in theory, can result in possibly not injuring either the knee or any leg bones during a moderate crash. Problem is with flexible bracing, there is a chance that in a hard crash, both the knee joint and the leg bones can suffer severe damage. Or maybe not.

Some don't follow the flexible brace theory at all. They preffer to stick with the rigid school of thought, which is fine...I just happen to be one that feels that there is a place for braces such as the RS6. It happens that I believe it is not quite the piece of junk that some think it is. It just has been designed with a differnt approach than the rigid style braces.

I tried oh so hard to get this discussion going before, but noone seems to place much credence in the flexible bracing thing. They would rather call such a brace junk, instead of debating the rigid/flexible issue. All I got before that the RS6 was made of plastic, and that should have satisfied me.....sorry it didn't. To compare the construction of one type of brace to another (flex vs. rigid) is not fair. They are two different animals. Perhaps the flexible braces construction would prove in tests to be far better in certain circumstances than the rigid, and visa-versa. But when one calls something junk and disguards any discussion about the theory behind it, is just not correct and that is where my beef was from the start.
I was not advocating the sale of the RS6 brace over the Asterisk. Or the other way around for that matter. I simply wanted to debate this issue...and Like Billy said, this is one of the few arguments one can witness here on the subject.

BTW...the third school of thought is by Dr's...they say no braces! Stay off the dirt bikes and try skiing! :p (yeah right)

Oh one more thing....does anyone know where I can get any free stickers? Ive heard there is a new sponsor here at DRN! "Putz-B-Us", Inc.
Do they get free adv. too? :p

 

[Thump]

Jay,
No hard feelings between us I hope.

The two schools of thought you talk about were stated in the review I did on the intro page:

What you need to understand before reading is that there are two theories of bracing. The first is the rigid frame construction (CTi2, Cell, Edge and Defender Pro). The thought is to build a brace that will mimic the motion of the knee but offer stability through material strength. These brace designs are many time stronger than the knee and offer little to no margin of flex. The goal, to ensure that injury does not occur by transferring the load to the brace instead of the joint. Is it possible that if the brace does not give that something else might? Yes, but understand that a broken bone is MUCH easier to recover from than torn ligaments, tendons and cartilage.

The second theory is the flexible frame construction (Rage and RS6). The thought is to build a brace that will mimic the motion of the knee but allow the brace to flex with the contour of the leg to maximize surface contact with the leg while offering strength and stability to the joint. These brace designs are also many time stronger than the knee but do flex. The goal, to ensure that injury does not occur by the brace absorbing the load and displace it across a large area. Is it possible for the brace to flex too much and allow injury to occur anyway? Yes, that is why brace material is of such great importance.

Which ever type of brace you choose do your homework, find out what it is made of, what kind of research and testing went into the brace and what kind of history the company has with braces. Keep in mind that brace frame strength is best determined while the brace is on the leg.

My last sentence was meant to help build confidence in the flexible brace because most people will feel it off the leg and assume it will not protect... However I feel as flexible braces go the XO-Rage is the best available and I would recomment it to a MX or off-roader before I would recommend the CTi2 or Edge because it offers fabulous support on the leg and better impact protection. The advantage in my opinion the DIL and Cell have over the Rage is even more impact protection area. I have worn the Rage enough to be completely comfortable with the flexing and I really like it.

 

[Jaybird]

Thump,
Absolutely no hard feelings....remember I'm an old guy. It takes a bit more than debate to get me mad at Anyone. :)

You are the only person here that has made any mention to this topic, that I know of. Even the last time we had this debate, nobody wanted to join in and discuss it. I was even in hopes of some of our resident Dr's having a go at it, but alas....

Anywho..to perfectly honest, for a long time I've had a notion that flexible bracing might just be the best type for trail/woods riders. I bet the large percentage of those folks wear none. To me, rigid bracing is a smart way to go for fools like me who like to case doubles. Also for those who can't afford too many more acl/mcl/pcl/lcl or any other kind of cl injuries. But for folks who wear none, I think the RS6 would be a great place to start. Like I mentioned, I've had several crashes with them and good success..thats the only testing I could possibly add.

Folks, no matter what type of riding you do, I recommend a good look at some braces. They make you go way faster!:D (it's true)

 

[wizner]

Cell Versus CTI2

Can You Use The CELL as a Medical Brace ?
(I Suffered ACL tear and MCL damage )
Or is it just a prophilactic one ?

and sec. question :

Does anybody realy know is Inovation Sports and Asterisk the same brand or are they not ?

Thanks
Jacob Wizner

 

['00kx250spode]

I had knee surgery this summer (not riding-related) and got a Rx for the CTI. I paid a total of $190 for 2 braces with the knee cups.

If you've had surgery, get your doc to write a Rx. You just can't beat that deal! But if you haven't had surgery, I'd highly recommend you get the Astericks before you do. The CTI's are just too expensive without insurance.

Sorry to stay on-topic. :)

 

[BillyWho]

wizner, I've worked at Asterisk since it's inception two and half years ago, and this is the relationship between the two company's. Jim Castillo (founder/owner of Inn.) started Asterisk to build a high quality brace that was affordable to the public direct or through your local motorcycle dealership. Innovation is strictly a medical company which means you have to get a prescription from a doctor to get a CTI or Edge, or you pay full pop for them which is very expensive. Asterisk is a completely stand alone RETAIL company. Yes we are in the same building ( not for long), but we are not a division of Innovation, completely separate. I know it looks and sounds confusing, but the bottom line is Innovation is medical and Asterisk is retail. Asterisk is also not going to be strictly a knee brace company as Innovation is, we started with a knee brace for motocross because there was a need for an affordable high quality knee brace that was easily accessible, and we all ride/race and love the sport, so our first product was obvious.Could we have made the CELL a medical device, yes but we didn't and it's not classified as one. If it was, the price range wouldn't be where it needs to be for riders too be able to afford them. Hope this helps, any more questions let me know.

Billy

 

[simon1]

has anyone used the fox exoflex?


http://www.mx1.co.uk/acatalog/index.html

 

[JTT]

Getting back to the original question, someone should mention that knee braces are unlikely to prevent broken tibia/fibia, or even femur, in fact, some ortho specialist believe the opposite. I was strongly discouraged from purchasing braces by my ortho guy. His take was that the load of a crash has to go somewhere, if the knee is rigid (from a brace) then the load must be transfered elsewhere :think

With this logic, maybe the "lessor" EVS does make some sense :think

I do wear a brace on a formerly injured knee and have seriously considered one for the other. Just pointing out another point of view, and the flaws in the idea that braces will prevent broken bones.

 

[Okiewan]

I was strongly discouraged from purchasing braces by my ortho guy. His take was that the load of a crash has to go somewhere, if the knee is rigid (from a brace) then the load must be transfered elsewhere

Following that attitude... which would you prefer; a broken leg or a blown knee? If you've had these injuries the answer is obvious.

I don't think I've heard anyone say that braces will keep you from breaking a bone.

 

[JTT]

Originally posted by raider
I plan to get a good set of knee braces to both support the leg that was injured as well as to possibly prevent this from happening again.

Woohh, Okie, I did not intend to be argumentative, or infer that you or anybody else here did say that a brace would prevent a break, but this seemed to be the inference in the original post. I guess everyones just a little sensitive (not that I blame you Okie, being compared to MXA ;) ) I was just responding the the quote above from the original poster.

And yes, I have experienced both torn MCL and partial ACL, as well as broken femur....actually, I'd take the knee if I had to do it again ;) (joking, of course)

 

[fremontguy]

Another compliment on the Cell braces. During one of Mr.Wr's "warm up" rides, I fell off boulder in ravine landing on extended right leg between rocks, with bike on top of me. The brace kept my leg from over-extending and no broken bones:cool:

 

[flo]

about Asterisk Cell, for billywho

i just ordered a pair of asterisk,i'm not from U.S. . In fact a friend of mine made this order for me, he is from Chicago, and they said that the shiping can't be quicker than 11 days.The problem is that his brother (wich is suposed to bring me the pack ) will leave U.S. earlier than this 11 days. So if the delivery can be made in 2-4 days by UPS as you said, than i can have my asterisk, if not....What is the truth

 

[Okiewan]

Woohh, Okie, I did not intend to be argumentative

Sorry if it sounded like I took it that way, I didn't.

 

[BillyWho]

flo, it's a matter of us not having them in stock right now verses a shipping delay. We've been hit pretty hard from the dealer show and Australia lately.
Call Brad Monday morning and ask him what he can do, maybe he can shuffle some priorities around. 1-800-459-2999 X206

Thanks
Billy