Leaded gas

adstott

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May 23, 2002
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I've been hearing a lot lateley about the AMA making everyone use unleaded gas. That was the first I had ever heard of race teams using leaded gas. What's the advantage to leaded gas? Does the lead somehow help with compression by making a better seal.
 

adstott

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May 23, 2002
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somebody has to know. I heard the anouncers at the anaheim supercross talking about it and they said that it helps the engine run cooler. How does that work.
 

txkawboy

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Nov 18, 2003
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i do konw that lead was added to gasoline to help lube valve-seats in autos, way back in the 50's...if any modern-day race gas even has lead in it, it is news to me, but...
 

Rich Rohrich

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Lead has always been a very inexpensive way to raise the RON and especially the MON octane rating of a fuel. It also works really well at giving the tuner an extra margin of safety when tuning close to the edge due to it's chemical properties and the way it influences active radical formation. If you guys are interested I'll be happy to bore you to death with some of the details :)

For late model engines (2 & 4 stroke ) lead serves no other useful purpose other than raising octane . Stories of it saving valves, running cooler, or making bottom ends last longer is total bunk when talking about the engines built in the last 15 years.

The only way lead can make an engine run cooler is if it were detonating without lead and the octane increase WITH lead stopped the detonation. Any fuel that satisfied the initial octane requirement and stopped the detonation would have the same effect on temps wether it had lead or not. In other words, adding lead to the fuel of an engine that is not detonating will not change the combustion chamber temps to any measurable degree.
 

mxer842

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Nov 11, 2003
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in TWMX they had an article that basically said that 2s get must of their power from compression and energy of the gas. and since high compression engines need high octane, lead is the best way to boost octane without losing the energy level of the gas. thus, when they had to run unleaded it meant they had to make up for the loss in octane but that has decreased the energy level of the gas and thus it is slower. 4s however aren't as affected by this change, so this looks like the final nail in the coffin for 2smokes. however, that rule only applies if you are racing a AMA supercross or outdoor national, lead is still legal at the amateur nats and local races.
 

Rich Rohrich

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Like so many magazines TWMX needs to do their homework and better understand fuel specs and how engines produce power before they put things in print. ;)

Let's take a look at a couple of the Firepower brand race fuels and see if we can't get a better idea about this :

Firepower Leaded 893 - 118 octane (6.00 grams lead /gallon)
Firepower Unleaded 324 - 101 octane (oxygenated no lead)


If you look at the heat energy (heat of combustion) available from a pound of fuel you get :

Leaded 893 19020 BTU/lb
Unleaded 324 18747 BTU/lb

If you only looked this at the spec sheet it would appear that the leaded race fuel would make more power due to it's higher energy value, but that isn't the case. You can't just look at the heat energy of the fuel, you have to factor in how much fuel will react with a pound of air to release that energy. In other words you can't tell how much energy is really released until you divide the the true air fuel ratio of a fuel with the heat of combustion value to get what is commonly referred to as the specific heat or combined heat of the fuel.

So lets take a look at what these same fuels look with that in mind.


Leaded 893 19020 BTU/lb of air divided by it's air/fuel ratio of 15.29:1 gives us a specific heat value of 19020/15.29 = 1244 BTU/lb of air

Unleaded 324 18747 BTU/lb of air divided by it's air/fuel ratio of 13.84:1 gives us a specific heat value of 18747/13.84 = 1355 BTU/lb of air

Well look at that, the unleaded fuel will produce more usable energy when all is said and done. :laugh:

This is just one example to illustrate a point. If you look at the heat energy value of methanol it's only 8750 BTU, yet due to it's very low air/fuel ratio 6.47:1 it has a specific energy of 1352 BTU/lb of air.

Dr. David Redszus of FirePower Fuels has shown me on numerous occasions that almost all legal fuel blends make about the same power when tuned correctly. The difference between the highest and lowest fuels in terms of BTU/lb air is only 4% unless you start getting into the exotic stuff. Other factors are much more significant so don't worry about the heat energy. While it may be sort of fun to dissect it like this , it is for our purposes pretty unimportant and ultimately so is wether or not there is lead in the fuel. :thumb:
 

adstott

Member
May 23, 2002
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Thanks for the info. You would think with todays technology there would be a better another way to raise octane levels without being "hazardous" to the environment, as the tree huggers would say.

And I'm just going to throw in a quick complaint about how this thread has been moved around. It has been moved from one forum to another and is now back where it started. WTF.
 

Rich Rohrich

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Someone probably moved it to the Advanced forum hoping I would see it and help get it rolling. Once I saw that no one was jumping in it was clear to me that more members visit this forum and might add something to the topic or get something out of it so I moved it back. If we see a post can fit well in more than one place and it isn't getting enough of a response we'll move it in an attempt to get people to respond.
 

jmics19067

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hey if we are talking about fuel shouldn't it be in the flame forum :laugh:

Rich, the only decent fuels available in my area are VP.

is the moto sports 103 any decent for a two stroke 250 that is hardly ever wide open throttle?

I like the performance of c12 but am concerned or cleaning the lead deposits off my piston. Since I am fairly fanatical about maintenance and dont work the motor hard often my pistons will usually last a couple of years.Is there an easy way of cleaning the lead deposits? Is motosports 103 a viable alternative or maybe even a blend of that with c12?

octane shouldnt be much of a concern since I can run on pump.

thanks for any input
 

70 marlin

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I still don't understand why the AMA is restricting the use of the other fuels. Also I've searched most of the fuel threads briefly. But I still don't under stand the difference between the RON Vs MON octane rating's. My new Husaberg requires a 95 MON rated fuel. From what I've digested from this board and other information sources that I can get away with running a 93-octane pump gas and it will be just fine for my bike? Even though I've been buying a 110-octane pump gas from this speed way gas station by me. The stuff is $3.99 a gallon and the bike runs great. (But it always does, even with cheap gas) The exhaust pipe is a nice gray tan color even after a day of lugging the motor. The biggest reason I spend extra on the fuel is. It smells great and I feel better. Hey you only live once. It's a new bike and it's exotic!
 
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