Lowering The seat hight on my KTM

Jeremy Wilkey

Owner, MX-Tech
Jan 28, 2000
1,453
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MR GP....


Your post about lowering the subframe is fine. It will help some riders feel more comfortable, and many of the riders on the team do use this mod. I've run it myself and personaly like it. (no that my riding opinion means much, as I'm a slow rider..)

Whats really intresting is the new 2002 works and SXS will use a longer travel shock with almost 20mm of negative travel.. The bike actually can be taller in some set-up situtations. I recomend for bikes that need to be shorter more than an Inch that the rider also modify the shaft travel. When done in ballance with the front the bike will still work very well.


Something allso important. Kelly Smith did not run "stock" Suspension for the forstroke series... He had SXS lowers and what looked like the triple bushing upper tube. Perhaps you should consult with real WP experts, (Such as FC, CRS, or others..) when you gather your information.


Regards,

Jer
 
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rollingp

Member
Oct 31, 2001
393
0
Don't need to consult them because I was standing right there in the shop..
I rode Kellys, bike and the parts used are the pre production 02 stock 48.mm internals.The used exc he finished up with didn't even have that much done to it.

The parts were made by opening up the bleed and drilling out the pistons on the shock . Nothing exotic here.The fork internals were also modified stock pieces that are now deemed sxs and were put in production for the 02 bikes.
This trick was first used on the 97 sx pre production bike that Kieth Bowen was testing and racing and further used in 2000. The modification can be done on the 01 43mm fork and shock but is easier to purchase from KTM
already done. You are partially correct it was modified and wasn't stock to the tune of coming on every machine but a shim shuffle isn't standard either.
Dowd was running production 43 mm forks for over half of the 01 season until he got a pair of 48mm pre production legs.
Shane King is the only rider to get any actual works parts and these parts
end up as production parts. He was running hand made forks that were springless for a while back in 99.
They never made it into production because they were a maint nightmare.
SXSsuspension parts are primarily a valving spec sheet from the factory
and larger cartridge.
 
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Jeremy Wilkey

Owner, MX-Tech
Jan 28, 2000
1,453
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Mr Gp,
Sorry bro... But I'm gonna bust your chops on this one.. The Works SXS stuff is not anything like you say, infact the cartridge is smaller and definetly not just reworked.. (But hey you said it not me..)

(The SXS (std) is quite diffrent not just shim changes..) How about selas, tubes, bushes, coatings etc.. Dowd may have rode with the prodcution stuff beacuse FC could not get him anything else for some time.. Seems other WP guys had bought most of it.. As a matter of fact it caused quite a rift when I was trying to get Dowd and Carpernter on some of mine.. A lack of intrest from the team manager, and desire not to cause problems kept it from happening..

Anyway in case you did not know , I'm a little more than a back yard hack, and have a litle to do with KTM/ WP myself so maybe you should be a little more careful, with your facts..



Regards,
Jer
 

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marcusgunby

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jan 9, 2000
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Just to chip in my bit on the pros-to say they run a stock set up isnt really true as Langston etc also ran the cut down subframe and will change the fork offset for each track(16/18/20 std/22mm)-his shock for the outdoors(SXS) was modified to have a 10mm passage between the reseviour and shock body(instead of 8mm on the SXS and 6mm on the std).

You say you can service the PDS in 30mins but didnt mention the piston aligning tool you need.I havnt done a 02 and you may well not have to use a pump but loads of 98/99/00/01 shocks will need the kit so a shop has to buy it.
One a good day i could do a 01 PDS in just over a hour but thats after doing about 10 of them-the 1st time is a nightmare.A spring compressor on a dirtbike-whats that all about-oh dear the spring we need is too long -ohh just get the saps to buy a compressor.Also on oils used for the PDS-to combat fade i ended up using WP oil-very expensive but normal oils just wont stand up to the needs of the pds.Im sorry but the PDS is a joy to have on the bike (as in it takes seconds to mount it up)but off the bike its a disaster-i refer again to the Ohlins(sorry jer but its just soo much easier)it a normal shock in every way bar its 2nd piston-thats how wp should have made it.
I dont blame techno heads for enjoying the pds (as i have in the past)but from a purely financial point of view its a non starter.If we had an offer of a new machine at work but we had to completly restock our tools at a vast cost for only a few units-the answer would be NO every time no matter what the advantages-costs/unit rules in business, not lets do it because its interesting.
I admire KTM for doing there own thing but its come at a price-many riders on suspension they dont like.

You ask why riders need to have flat feet when sitting-in truth they dont need to, but would like to as it gives confidance-thats one reason i like the CR-it suits my small legs.

On shortening any shocks-yes you are sacrificing some performance but the trade off is a rider that feels happy and is able to expoilt his 90% travel, instead of feeling scared on 100% travel.
On the WP 50mm extremes its funny but in the Uk they were horrible-maybe they were different in the US-i dont know-flex wasnt a problem for me but weight was-they dominated the whole feel of the bike(a 99 125sx)

I think we are coming from different angles because most of my experience is on the 125sx and that is alot lighter than all the others and i beleive this has a bearing on the feel of the shocks.Im not saying you cannot get a 125sx to work but it isnt easy.
 
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Rich Rohrich

Moderator / BioHazard
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jul 27, 1999
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Nice pic Jer. It looks like you are hanging in better circles these days :)

Let's see I recognize you in the middle in the suit (hehehe) Rod Bush Pres KTM USA, Ron Hebron (US racing Director) but the other guys are beyond my pumpkin knowledge. Who are the rest of the guys in the pic.
 

steve125

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Oct 19, 2000
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Man, this PDS system seems like alot of hassle just to get out of having to grease your linkages every once and awhile.:p
 

Bonehead

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Mar 15, 2001
406
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Well, Well, Well,you got to love this one .

Let me say that I don't need to touch the ground wile I am racing It's on the 4 mile trail rides that take you 6 1/2 hrs to compleat that's when I need to touch the ground take a look at the jawbone post from this year and you will understand why I need to touch the ground .

About my suspension that my backyard tweeker suspension guy did for me. My first ride on the new boinggers was jawbone. there where 4 other 520EXC'S with work done to the forks and one left stock with just clicker adjustment
We all switched back and forth from one bike to the other by far my 520 had the best setup. It worked in all conditions and the most significant change was the medium speed, square lip, rock smashing, trail bashing. It totally got rid of that hard smash at the first part of the stroke and that was what I was after.
I guess I am lucky that I know a backyard suspension tweeker that listens and has seen me ride for 20 years because what he did works for ME.
This setup may not work for motocross but dam it sure feels good in the woods.

00 520 exc
00 380 exc
short legs
 

endoquest

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Dec 4, 2000
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Very good point there BH. Most of the contributors in this post are talking about motocross suspension but most of the people riding KTMs are off-road riders. Excellent reading, however. Happy New Year!
 

KTMster

Member
Mar 27, 2001
268
0
Bonehead, I had my subframe cut down 7mm and it lowered it approximately 1 1/2 inches. I don't have a problem with the rear tire hitting the fender but I am not an aggressive rider. Do make sure that you cut it in the exact right place or else the bolts won't line up. I also sent my seat to a professional to have the seat foam cut down & that took off another inch. I've also raised the front forks and had the suspension set up and lowered.

Feel free to e-mail me if you have any further questions on who did the work for me.....I am not sure if I am allowed to post the names of these companies? :think

Good luck!
 

Garyb

Member
Jul 20, 2000
211
0
Sooo...Bonehead...who's your backyard tuner ???
That hard smash in the first part of the travel is exactly what I don't like about my suspension
Gary
 

rollingp

Member
Oct 31, 2001
393
0
gunby

A spring compressor is used so the pre load ring does not have to be backed off and anyone with basic skills can fab a compressor.( saves time)
The alighnment tool is not needed.
A good fabricator can build a pump for under $500.00.
48 mm inverted forks are heavier than 50 conventionals
and absolutley have a better action.I never mentioned Langstons bike.
Oh boy on the rest.
 

Jeremy Wilkey

Owner, MX-Tech
Jan 28, 2000
1,453
0
RICH,
Left to right..

Kelvin Thomas: A felow WP distributor from IN.. He owns a KTM Dealership, and a suspension comapny called CRS.. He had alot to do with KTM's testing in the early to middle 90's. (He has a ton of exspereience.. we had a very colorful debates on the whole trip... A really great Guy, who is very capable..)

Ron Hebron: Ron was the former Team Green man, who now runs the KTM/ Redbull MX and SX teams..

Mr. Peirs: CEO of KTM sport motorcycles...And beleive it or not I've seen him stuf Langson in a corner..but thats another story..

Jeremy Wilkey: ( Um me )

Rod Bush: President KTM USA

Richard Sawitskas: WP North America Importer


If the spellings aren't correct.. I applogize in advance..
 

marcusgunby

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jan 9, 2000
6,450
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GP as i cant refer to your last name:
The alignment tool isnt needed?is this only on the 02s as you definatly need them on the 01 etc other wise you get a nice mix of bush teflon in the oil-ive done a few that were not aligned and the piston bands were shot after only half a season and the shock was real sticky in use.

If the 48s are heavier than the 50s im glad i dont have them on my bike-they probably weigh more than my forks and the front wheel;)

I noticed you never mentioned Langstons bike.

On the rest im happy to be shown to be wrong-im not after a flame war with you-(which you may/may not beleive)im just trying to bring solid information to the readers-thats what the forums all about. :)

Redone after 10minutes pondering time:
I thought about this discussion and its not getting us anywhere and im not even sure weather we adgree or disagree so lets leave it as is.
 
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