methanol

MW · Jan 27, 2003

What's would be involved in the conversion of a PWM carb to alcohol on a 2-stroke, besides about 1.7x larger jet size!?

MikeT · Jan 27, 2003

I think the methanol will eat the stuff inside your carb unless the materials are designed to work with methanol. We ran it in a stock car that used to run on gas with bad results. The crew cheif changed the jets but on the second race the car started running poorly. We come to find out that we need to drain the carb of the meth after each race and fill it up with gas to prevent corrosion. That's all I know about the subject, you might want to look into it more if you haven't already.

marcusgunby · Jan 27, 2003

Isnt it really bad for absorbing water as well?

luvtolean · Jan 27, 2003

Originally posted by marcusgunby
Isnt it really bad for absorbing water as well?

Yes.

luvtolean · Jan 27, 2003

Also very hard on rubber seals and hoses as mentioned.

bclapham · Jan 27, 2003

not only that, it makes your eyes funny when you drink it. Worse still, ugly girls start to look good!

MW · Jan 27, 2003

EG:PWM methanol `conversion

Eric, can you supply kit for conversion or do I need to send in carb?
thank you
roadracer
ps: all the ramifications of running alcohol are noted...

Jeroboam7 · Jan 28, 2003

Methanol should not be run in any system that will contact any rubber, it eats rubber. Methanol is derived from the fermentation of wood, and if you drink it, it will kill you!!!!

Ethanol can be run in anything and is not corrosive, however if you have dirt, rust, or grim in your fuel system it will loosen these deposits and clog fuel filters and jets, so make sure you have a clean fuel system. And yes it does attract water if it is not mixed with something else, so after you run it drain the carb and run the engine on race gas for a few minutes! And yes you can drink Ethanol it is made from corn, milo, sugercane, and a thousand other feedstocks, however at 200 proof it will collapse your throat so dilute it, and don't drink what you can buy for fuel it has to be denatured before it leaves, the refinery!

bclapham · Jan 28, 2003

Thanks for the chemistry lesson!:thumb:

Hogwylde · Jan 29, 2003

Being the crew chief for my dad's midget that runs alcohol, I can offer a few pointers....

Methanol is moderately corrosive. It reacts with rubber and aluminum and not sure what else. What this means is that any and all gaskets that would come in contact with the fuel (in your case, all carb gaskets, intake manifold, engine crank seals, expansion pipe seals) need to be changed to something that is methanol resistant. You already have the right idea about increasing the jet size to flow the increased amount of fuel required. And, the corrisiveness of the fuel reacts with the aluminum of the carb and engine. This requires you to flush the carb and engine to rid it of any residual fuel. Any fuel NOT flushed will react and you get this white crusty buildup that has to be cleaned out. Gasoline or WD-40 or some other light oil works pretty good as a flushing agent.

MikeT · Jan 29, 2003

Originally posted by Hogwylde
Any fuel NOT flushed will react and you get this white crusty buildup that has to be cleaned out.

That's what took our car out. We learned the hard way. :(

cp380sx · Feb 1, 2003

I've run Methanol in a KX 250 with success. I have a Don Vesco jetted 40mm Dual Power Jet Lectron carb that allows very rich jetting without major mods. The methanol setup works best on power robbing sand tracks. To get the most out of the methanol you need to raise the compression and advance the timing slightly. The easiest way to clear out the the residual methanol is to run regular premix through the engine after each day of use. It will be running pig rich which helps wash the methanol from the internal engine parts and seals.

G92Joe · Feb 2, 2003

CP380sx,
Did you have problems with water (moisture) getting into the fuel? Is it corrosive as everyone says? Were you able to pull taller gearing on the methonal? Would you recommend it as a option to other perfomance mods?Thanks ...

cp380sx · Feb 2, 2003

Yes, methanol is hygroscopic, meaning it will absorb moisture from the air. I purchased a hydrometer from a chemical supply co. to test the specific gravity of every batch of fuel. I had fuel that was too heavy on a number of occasions. Not only will that cause corrosion, it will also cause the jetting to go lean. Running a taller should be no problem on high speed tracks.

G92Joe · Feb 3, 2003

Did you run taller gearing on your KX?

cp380sx · Feb 3, 2003

I ran two less teeth in the back at faster tracks.

G92Joe · Feb 4, 2003

CP380sx,
Sorry for all the additional questions, but I'm trying to decide on a power adder to a 250cc bike. Was the alc. kit worthwhile vs. porting & pipe, or a 310cc kit? What would you guess the HP gain to be .... 3hp, 5hp, more? Was the power increase mostly top-end, or did torque increase also?
Where's the best place to get the carb you mention? price? Thanks ....

cp380sx · Feb 4, 2003

I would estimate I got a 6-8hp increase mid to top. The bottom end was slightly weaker. I'll try to get a source for the Lectron. I know that Pro Stock drag bikes run them so they are still around. I may consider parting with mine but I'd prefer to hang on to it.

cp380sx · Feb 4, 2003

The number for Lectron Fuel Systems is (254) 857-3828. The owner is a British woman. Unfortunately, I don't remember her name. Tell her you are looking for a 40mm dual power jet Lectron set up for a 2 stroke on Methanol. Basically you need to start with the richest jetting they have then lean it out carefully. Methanol runs fairly well within a pretty wide range of a/f ratios. Methanol also burns clean so reading plugs can be more difficult. It's hard to put any color on them. Just be careful not to go too lean or the engine will meltdown just like they do on gas.

MikeT · Feb 5, 2003

Just got to ask.. Why do you want to run your bike on methanol anyway?

G92Joe · Feb 5, 2003

For my purposes (sandy MX track), a 250cc bike needs more power. A 500 is too much, so I need something in between.

MikeT · Feb 6, 2003

I think KTM makes a 380 something ;)

cp380sx · Feb 6, 2003

Originally posted by MikeT
I think KTM makes a 380 something ;)

That's exactly what I bought after I sold my Methanol burning KX250. I did get tired of the extra work involved with running Methanol although the extra hp is great. I considered doing a 310cc big bore to the KX but the 380SX had gotten so good that it was a better choice. Unfortunately KTM has discontinued the 380. I feel lucky to have one of the last ones.

MikeT · Feb 6, 2003

If they discontinued the 380, what are they making now in that range?

G92Joe · Feb 6, 2003

Tom Morgan Racing makes a 327cc kit for the KX that puts out 60hp & 38 ft-lbs torque - $2,100 though

methanol

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