Mobile 1 MX4T oil analysis 2004 honda crf450

RYDMOTO

~SPONSOR~
Feb 16, 2001
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http://www.analystsinc.com/

I had the oil on my 450 analyized this week.I had both the original oil tested and of course the used oil tested.My engine had 6.6 hours on it by the hour meter.The oil filter still looked very clean.Bike sat all winter-ridden last fall.

MX4T 10w40

new oil - used oil -------- wear items
iron 1 and 13 *** rings,shafts,gears,valve train,cylinder walls

chromium <1 <1*** chromed parts-rings,liners,some coolant
additives

nickel <1 <1 *** secondary indicator wear from bearings,
shafts,valves and valve guides

aluminum 1 and 7*** pistons,rod bearings,certain types of bushings

lead <1 <1 *** mostly from tetraethyl lead contamination

copper <1 and 23*** bearings,rocker arm bushings,wrist pin
bushings,thrust washers,other bronze
and brass parts,discs and clutch plates
oil additive or anti seaze compound

tin <1 and 1 *** bearings when babbit overlays are used,
piston wear in some engines

silver <.1 and 61.7*** bearings that contain silver,secondary
indicator of oil cooler problems esp when
coolant in sample is detected

titanium <1 <1 *** alloy in high quality steel for bearings and
gears

silicon 2 and 13 *** a measure of airborn dirt and dust
contamination-usually indicating improper air
cleaner service.Excessive dirt can
accelerate component wear

boron 244 and 249*** used as additive in some oils

sodium 6 and 7 *** used as an additive is some oils

potassium<10 <10 *** coolant additive

molybdenum 92 and 93*** indicates ring wear,additive package in
some oils

phosphorus 1742 and 1662*** anti-rust agent,spark plug and
cumbustion chamber deposit
reducers

zinc 1874 and 1808*** antioxidents,corrosion inhibitors,antiwear
additives,detergents,extreme pressure
additive

calcium 2330 and 2374*** detergents,dispersants,acid neutralizers

barium <10 <10 *** corrosion inhibitors,detergents,rust
inhibitors

magnesium 14 and 16*** dispersant-detergent additive,alloying
metal

antimoney <30 <30 ***bearing overlay alloy,or oil additive

vadium <1 <1*** heavy fuel contaminant

oil water %
volume <.1 <.1 *** promotes oil breakdown and component
part corrosion

vis cs
40c 98.3 (not done) (not sure why it was not done on used
oil)

vis cs
100c 13.4 and 12.6 (noted on list as sae grade 40)

TAN 2.19 (not done)) Total Acid Number. (not sure why it
was not done on used oil)

TBN 8.42 and 8.97 (noted as TBN(c) D2896 on used oil test)
Total Base Number
(total alkalinity or alkaline reserve)
decrease my indicate a depleted additive
package

Glycol test negative

fuel% volume 4.0 >I don't think I warmed the engine up long
enough
 
Last edited:

Jaybird

Apprentice Goon
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Mar 16, 2001
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Charlestown, IN
I'm curious if they mentioned how the TBN managed to rise after the bike has been run over 6 hours and sat for the winter? The running will deplete the base some, and just sitting will allow oxidation, and the resulting acids, to lower that number even further.

As far as the viscosity testing goes, MX4T pours out in the middle of the 40wt rating.
Your oil has sheared down to just above 30wt. (30wt oil @ 100c < / = 12.49)
Most ISO grade oils use the 40c testing for viscosity, and you can use the following formula to determine the ISO grade SUS of the oil:
SUS @ 100 deg F/5=cSt @ 40 deg C.
 

RYDMOTO

~SPONSOR~
Feb 16, 2001
612
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Thanks Jay! i will have to stop by the lab and ask them to give me an education.They only charge me $15.00 a sample.I would like to have some other oils tested to see how they match to MX4T such as Mobile1 gold cap etc.It's just a wild guess here but maybe the TBN going up says how good an oil it is??
 

Jaybird

Apprentice Goon
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Mar 16, 2001
6,449
0
Charlestown, IN
The TBN of a oil doesn't go up. It starts out at a set number, and decreases with both wear and time.
The total base number is basically a gage. If the additive package is still up to full power and not depleted, the acid numbers remain lower. Once the additives and other components of the oil start to degrade, the aciditiy level of the oil will begin to rise, and consequentially the total base number lowers. For analysis purposes, once a TBN number falls to 1-2, it is usually indicative of the additive package now being depleted and can no longer fight oxidation and acid build-up.

Some additives will remain in about the same ppm as they start out as. Others become depleted with use. Zinc and Phosphorus are additves that usually show decreasing in ppm with use. From your report, the lowering of zinc and phosphorus would be in line with the use of the oil. And we normally see a drop in TBN that coincides fairly close with the depletion of zinc and phos. levels.
Your report does not show this...and it makes me question the methods and equipment used for testing.

All labs will tout themselves as having and doing what you need...but some labs specialize in engine oils and have very extensive databases that help with trending data. Some labs do indeed pass the criteria and have adequate equipment, but other labs have even better more sophisticated equipment.
You may want to try some other labs just for comparisons sake.
I recommend Blackstone Labs, although a read is like $25 and TBN additional $10.
 

RYDMOTO

~SPONSOR~
Feb 16, 2001
612
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Thanks again Jay.I am on a learning curve here.As far as I know they are a reputable company.we use them at work here and send somewhere about a 100 samples a year to them.That why I get a good price.The new oil sample was from the original bottle I used which had a few ounces left in it but was sealed tightly.I am not sure if that had anything to do with the numbers or not.I will stop by at the lab and talk to a tech there.My silver level was high which might be normal for the hours on the oil.If anything we can have some good debate on oils etc.And how often we really do need to change the oil.I plan on dis-assembling the oil filter and perhaps clean it in some solvent to see how dirty it actually was.Again thanks for your educating me
 

Jaybird

Apprentice Goon
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Mar 16, 2001
6,449
0
Charlestown, IN
There will always be slight descrepancies in the numbers, even when retesting the same sample with the same equipment.

The report you got is fine if you are doing industrial analysis.
Auto oil buffs usually like a little tighter report.
But irregardless, you have a problem.
The level of iron is fairly normal, and the aluminum is actually a bit lower than many would show, so nothing to worry about there. But, the high level of copper and silver is indicative of a bearing getting ready to let loose.
You may want to check your bottom end real close (small bearing too). You may well find something out of spec. and be able to correct it for cheaper than letting it suprize you. Making the $15 money very well spent.
 

RYDMOTO

~SPONSOR~
Feb 16, 2001
612
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I have a question Jay, this oil I had tested was changed with about 4 hours on the bike.I added my hour meter with a few hours on the engine.I didn't log when exactly when I put it on.Could I have been in the break-in mode so to speak? The engine does not have many hours on it as far as having a bearing problem goes.But that's not to say there is.The other question is my higher fuel volume%--could that have raised my TBN numbers slightly? I am not up on the fuel chemicals.I am using Firepower race fuel.Maybe that had something to do with it. Also I am not up on what kinds of bearings and bushings Honda uses thru-out the engine.Maybe Rich can help out there.Thanks for your thoughts.
 

Jaybird

Apprentice Goon
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Mar 16, 2001
6,449
0
Charlestown, IN
The oil will normally show some viscosity loss from fuel dilution. It is always a good idea to have the engine up to run temps when you take a sample, so you can burn off any fuel that may have settled in the sump.
Leaded fuels will also show very high lead levels as normal.
I don't think the fuel will effect the base number at all.
It is very easy to contaminate a sample, so extra care should always be taken to not goop up the lid, etc...
You can also see a sample get a good dose of something that may have been in a pocket at the bottom of the pan. Good idea to let about half the warm oil flow out before putting the bottle in the stream for the sample.

The levels of the metals showing would have me concerned enough to do an hour or two ride and take another sample.
Thouroughly clean, oil, drip-dry your air filter first.
 

RYDMOTO

~SPONSOR~
Feb 16, 2001
612
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Thanks again Jay.I will put a few ours on the bike and grab another sample.I doubt I sampled as accuratly as I could have with hindsight now.You know your way around oils and fuel well I see.How did you learn all this?
 

Jaybird

Apprentice Goon
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Mar 16, 2001
6,449
0
Charlestown, IN
I am responsible for the lubrication program at the largest truck mfg plant in North America. When the questions got to be a bit more than I could BS folks on...I had no choice but to go back to school and get lernt. (grin)
I also have interactions with the labs and techs at different oil mfgs, including Castrol and Mobil, as well as other independant labs.
Sampling and trending data are of the utmost importance with manufacturing machinery lubrication, and this knowledge goes hand in hand with auto lubrication trending.

My fuels knowledge is well below limited, but I try to learn all I can.
 
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