needle lingo is makin' me crazy.......

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#1
I ordered a new needle from Fredette this week. He sent me a 1173N. C Dave's, Kawi.com, and FMF list the 1173K as my option. Will the N throw me way off base?

Which do you guys on new 200's use? N or K? Thanks.
 
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#2
The alpha at the end of a kawi needle designates 'L1', or length of the needle from the clip end to a spot on the taper where the diameter is 2.515mm. Commonly called the 'straight section', but in fact is not exactly how long the straight section IS (not to be confusing..just to state the fact of the matter)

An 'N' is 'longer' than a 'K' by 1.8mm or two clip positions
(45.35mm is an 'N', 43.55mm is an 'L').

So...a 'K' on clip-3 is equal to an 'N' on clip-5.


Said another way, with the two needles set to the same clip, the 'N' will be a good bit more lean (two clips) than the 'K' in the 1/8-to-3/4 throttle range.

To get the the 'clip-2' that I believe is a common rec for kawi needle users, you would put the 'N' on clip-4.

But, I'm not a 'you guys' that use a kawi needle. I use keihin needles, currently a dek-4, but not on an oem carb. Point is my reference does not come from 'what I use'.

okeydokey?
 
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#3
Thanks CC. I call Fredette today, and they said they have been recommending the 1173N in the middle clip with good results since 89'. I'll give it a shot as a starting point and see how it feels.
 

Wolf

doooode
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#4
I used that needle for a while, I am now back to the stock needle (R1174 K)
I ended up with the R1173N in the 2nd from the top, but didn't really like it. It created a very annoying bog..the reason I started changing things to begin with. Good luck, hope it works out. Lots of trial and (in my case) error:)
 

Wolf

doooode
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#6
Its a 2000 KDX200. I am currently running stock reeds, PC pipe, 155main and 45 pilot. In hotter summer temps I run a 152 main, but hey, its cold uphere in Packer land now. Come winter I will probably go to a 158 main...if I ever get around to putting my studded tires on it.
 
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#7
canyncarvr, after reading dave's tech stuff over and over, let me see if I have this straight.

A 1173N in the middle clip has the EXACT same effect as a 1173K in the bottom clip.

and....

A 1173K is SLIGHTLY richer than a 1174K due to the fact that it is a bit more narrow.

Thanks for the tutorial.
 
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#8
CC, you said:

"An 'N' is 'longer' than a 'K' by 1.8mm or two clip positions
(45.35mm is an 'N', 43.55mm is an 'L').

So...a 'K' on clip-3 is equal to an 'N' on clip-5."

According to Dave's site a N is 3.15mm longer than a L
(K = 42.20, L = 43.55, M = 44.00, N = 45.35)

Anyway, I tried the N in the 2nd from bottom clip and it still had a tiny hesitation. Tried it in the bottom, and the bike felt really good, but smoked MUCH more.

What needle in the mid clip would equal my N in the bottom?

I played with the air screw a bit. Seemed to reach peak RPM around 2 or 2.25 turns out. Should I try a size smaller pilot. I do a lot of slow riding or down hill idling, as I am a wuss.

Again, 03 200, 45 pilot, 155 main 1173N in bottom clip, FMF woods pipe and silencer, air box mod.

Thanks you all. With your help, I'm slowly getting through this.
 
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#9
Re:
According to Dave's site a N is 3.15mm longer than a L
(K = 42.20, L = 43.55, M = 44.00, N = 45.35)


So... 45.35 - 43.55 = 3.15?

You been doin' my checkbook when I'm not looking? ;)

Asked: What needle in the mid clip would equal my N in the bottom?

Answered: 'So...a 'K' on clip-3 is equal to an 'N' on clip-5.'

Re: Hi-idle point.

Again, that is unlikely to be the point at which you will get the best throttle response. THAT will likely be 'in' (richer) from hi-idle.

Rule of thumb says that if you're out 2.5 on the air screw, you likely could use a leaner pilot. Give it a try. Nothing to lose, a whole lot to gain!
 
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#10
Sorry, I quoted you wrong in that last one.

You did says a N is longer than a K by 1.8
Dave's site say's
a N is 3.15mm longer than a K
(K = 42.20, L = 43.55, M = 44.00, N = 45.35) 45.35 - 42.20 = 3.15

((((in my last post a said N is longer than L, I meant longer than K)))))))

I'm not trying to argue, just trying to be sure I have a correct needle. Thanks again for your help.
 
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#11
The needle may well work ok... it's a bit long. Whether it's 'correct' or not is up to your take on how well it works......or not.

Most that use that series of needle would use clip four or so (again, equal to a clip two 'or so' on a 'K' needle).

Last time I used an R1173L, I had it on clip five...hence my 'bit long' comment. With a 40/152 jetting complement (and @ 4-6500' el.) it was perfect both by seat-of-the-pants AND by plug reads.

But...again...what works for one doesn't necessarily have much (if anything) to do with someone else's ride. I'm pointing out that one size don't fit all.