NO MORE PRE-MIX?!? A poll for trail riders

Johnnyboy

Member
Aug 25, 2001
72
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Just an idea I'm thinking of and I'm looking for enthusiam and thoughts. The thought is to have a seperate oil resevoir and an easily adjustable premix level so that trail riders can go for hundreds of miles and not have to worry about pre-mix or carrying extra oil. Kinda like the old bikes but easily attached to your KDX. What do you guys think? How much would you pay for a system such as this? Does it already exist?
 

DJM67

Member
Sep 14, 2001
57
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Heaps of Australian model KDX's were fitted with oil injection, oil res went under the fuel tank (metal) and the oil pump was located between the kick starter and the carb.
 

Braahp

~SPONSOR~
Jan 20, 2001
641
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No way! I much rather know thsat the correct amount of oil is getting to my cylinders. What if the injector fails? Kaboom. Besides....whats the big deal about pre-mixing? Nothing to it....or carrying oil either. Heck i can't ride much over 1 full tank (60 hardcore miles) anyways without being just totally give out. After having jetskis I feel like I never have to put much gas in this KDX!
 

JohninKY

Member
Nov 18, 2000
131
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Like you said they used to do it on some older and smaller bikes. I have a bike that has this setup. I get 2 tanks of gas per tank of premix. The pump is very reliable. 14,000 miles without a failure.

There are a couple of reasons I wouldn't do this on a dirtbike. First is the extra weight of the pump and the premix tank. Then there's the added components. A pump that needs adjusting, an oil line to run to the carb that might catch a tree branch. Simpler seems better in most cases in the dirt.
 

HiG4s

~SPONSOR~
Mar 7, 2001
1,311
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Originally posted by JohninKY
Like you said they used to do it on some older and smaller bikes. I have a bike that has this setup. I get 2 tanks of gas per tank of premix. The pump is very reliable. 14,000 miles without a failure.

There are a couple of reasons I wouldn't do this on a dirtbike. First is the extra weight of the pump and the premix tank. Then there's the added components. A pump that needs adjusting, an oil line to run to the carb that might catch a tree branch. Simpler seems better in most cases in the dirt.

heavier and more complicated VS the 4-strokes we will all be force to use in the near future? Outboards now all use oil injection, it helps them meet emissions standards by only using high mix ratios when the engine actually needs it. I would rather have oil injection than no choice but 4-strokes.
 

ktmboy

~SPONSOR~
Apr 1, 2001
2,474
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My Acerbis fanny pack came with an oil bottle which I have marked at 1 gallon increments. It holds enough oil to mix 3 gallons, so if I find myself coming up short on fuel, I simply pull into the pumps, and mix right in the tank! No big deal to me, IMO, and I know the mix is correct.:D
 

David Trustrum

~SPONSOR~
Jan 25, 2001
1,396
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I keep cut & pasting this so excuse if this is a repeat of DTs replys;

Oil injection has the advantage that when you run out of gas in the middle of nowhere you can blag some straight petrol from the local farmer.

Many people slag off oil injection which works just fine in zillions of road bikes everywhere. These old world closed minded people cannot accept the risk that the oil pump mechanism will continue to meter oil reliably into your precious engine.

When I discovered (just in time) that my oil level of my old DT200 was not going down I became one of these people.

We meet on Tuesday nights.
 

HiG4s

~SPONSOR~
Mar 7, 2001
1,311
1
Originally posted by David Trustrum
I keep cut & pasting this so excuse if this is a repeat of DTs replys;

Oil injection has the advantage that when you run out of gas in the middle of nowhere you can blag some straight petrol from the local farmer.

Many people slag off oil injection which works just fine in zillions of road bikes everywhere. These old world closed minded people cannot accept the risk that the oil pump mechanism will continue to meter oil reliably into your precious engine.

When I discovered (just in time) that my oil level of my old DT200 was not going down I became one of these people.

We meet on Tuesday nights.

Hey, we better go back to air cooling, 'cause how do we know that water pump is really working.
 

MADisher

Grand Data Poohbah
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Apr 30, 2000
377
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Hey, we better go back to air cooling, 'cause how do we know that water pump is really working.

Yes, and double over coil shocks on the rear too, cause those mono-shock swing arm linkages sure are complicated, They can't be as sturdy..

Who really needs more than an inch or two of travel anyways :p
 

JohninKY

Member
Nov 18, 2000
131
0
Originally posted by HiG4s


Hey, we better go back to air cooling, 'cause how do we know that water pump is really working.

Oh my god, you're right. Let's move this thread to the modifications forum so we can talk about proper sizing and welding techniques for adding cooling fins to the KDX cylinder.:silly:

Seriously, I think the water pump phobic meet on Thursdays.
 

Shadowknife

Member
Aug 27, 2001
9
0
I don't think 500mL or so of oil is a huge thing to fuss about and I like my KDX just the way it is. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's an awesome time saving idea but soon enough, it'll come stock on a bike or if manufactured it may not last long.:eek:
 

Johnnyboy

Member
Aug 25, 2001
72
0
I'm not talking about oil injecioin. I'm talking an easy reliable system that can be quickly installed and variable for different ratios. I go on long trail rides and I'm thinking of doing the mod for my bike so I can ride all day. I have done the method of carrying the oil and frankly I hate it. I never know if the oil is going to spill all over my pack or if my trip will extend over 2 tanks of gas. And no, I'm not telling how I'm gonna do it, I just wanted some input. I guess I'll be keeping this one to myself :confused:

And by the way ... I ride air cooled and I've never gotten stuck anywhere. It is a rock solid reliable bike.
 

MADisher

Grand Data Poohbah
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Apr 30, 2000
377
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Johnnyboy,

If you have a workable workaround, I'd be interested in hearing you out. There are a number of rides I'd like to do w/o strapping a gas can to a tree half way there.
 

Kawierider

Member
Jun 7, 2001
281
0
?

tsi85's have oil injection they wre made by suzukis in the 70's and i have had no reliability problems with mine....but i do wonder about it sometimes.. the problem i see with have a mixer like what you see mto be talking about is that it doesnt take into account the amount of gas moving into the engine, so the mix would actualyl be inconsistant. jsut a thought, you might be able to adapt another injection sysytem though.
tim
 

Homer88

Member
Jun 8, 2001
120
0
I have a 92 DT200WR and it comes with a 2T pump mechanism.

I have put up another thread sometime back. Cos I realised that the "pre-mix" ratio of the mechanism doesn't seem to be fixed.
The pump mechanism is throttle operated and it meters more oil when the throttle is wide open. And it can be adjustable.

But I realised that after a week's of riding, I used up 40 litres of petrol and I only used up 500 ml of 2T oil and 500 ml remaining in the reservoir.
This gave me an average of 1:80 premix ratio for that duration of riding.

Yes, it may provide more 2T oil when the engine is revved hard and less when just cruising but I find jetting a bit troublesome.

If using pre-mix, at least the pre-mix ratio is consistent and jetting IMHO seems to be easier.
 

Johnnyboy

Member
Aug 25, 2001
72
0
If all goes as planned it would be perfectly reliable and cost, hopefully, $35 - $60. It would be a gravity feed type of system that is variable with the flow of the gas.
 

MADisher

Grand Data Poohbah
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Apr 30, 2000
377
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Hrms, gravity = bad.

That assumes my bike is rite-side-up 98% of that time and that just aint so. :scream:
 
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