Not much room for Friday humor, but try this.....

[jamsxr]

Enough of your bash the U.S.A. tangent --

--If their cause was so noble and just---then why do they not take credit for their acts ---unless they are cowards!

And what is this we stuff? :confused:

then we can all be happy right?

You clearly have sided with the poor oppressed victims of the world.

I'll bet you are even a vegetarian. :scream:

 

[Wraith]

Racers Edge, why should we free the people of Burma? Can they not rise on their own, as many other countries have done in the past? Yes we do help countries for helping ourselves as Americans (like oil or whatnot). But these pacs between the US and these countries are negotiated behind closed doors, and I'm sure some they give the US some incentive to help them. It might not be right, but it is the way things are done. And I know Americans don't think terriorists attack for no reason. Things such as the bomd going off in a Iraq civilian building was terrible. But I can speculate that the information they recieved on that being a military compound, was recieved as well to the Iraqs so they pulled out and civilians then entered the building they had lived in once before the military took it over. I may be wrong, but this is how people such as the Iraqs think. Their military was getting pounded and they knew that if they sat up camp in one place to long they would for sure get hit. And your right, the was on terrorism is like the war on drugs. It's a never ending battle. But as far as the war on drugs go. We can't go into Columbia and wipe out the drug lords in a military act, because they are protected by their nation. And we can't justify going into a country because they bring in what once came from a plant. But we can justify going into a country that is harboring people that are linked with terrorist organizations, when a terrorist took Americans captive and flew them into a building killing many, many more. I know there are people in the Middle East who are innocent and had nothing to do with this. And I don't want to bomb them off the map. I just want to irradicate every terrorist off the face ofthe Earth. But the people who will not give up these terrorists. Most likely won't give them up because they are afraid. And I can see why. I'm a American, and I am afraid. But not afraid enough to sit back and do nothing. I will protect my wife, and son, and fellow country men even if that meens giving my life. Not something I would like to do. But I won't hesitate, because this is how much I love freedom. And freedom is something you have, and I don't feel you appreciate it. And what prices people have made to give this freedom to you.

 

[KXaggerator]

Racers Edge
This Red Neck has lost all respect for you, I find you to be a socialistic elitist who has never had to struggle for anything. It is because of the past brave people before you that have died for liberty that you can have your soft insulated life. There comes a time in a person’s life where honest people have to make decisions as to what is right and what is wrong without giving excuses. If were up to people like you, our countries would have never fought and won WWII, and there would be no Jewish people outside of this continent. The USA has made the mistake of trying to give aid to the peoples of the world only to be spit on by those that take our aid and spite us for having the economic means to help them. We are a small percentage of the world’s population, but we aid the world more them all countries combined. We fund 70% of the United Nations, but we are the great Satan to socialists such as you. The main evil we have done is support Israel, the only Democracy in the Middle East. Israel's enemies, your friends who's actions you justify, have stated that their goal to wipe out Israel (genocide) and end Zionism in the Middle East, it is in the Palestinian Authority's charter statement to this day.
Again I ask what are you willing to fight for. I have not had a good nights sleep since this act of barbarism happened, my dreams are twisted with dying burning people and crying, you know insensitive red neck stuff. This has touched me at such a deep level that I have never known until now. Because of this EVIL I and many of my fellow Americans are willing to fight and die for our freedom. The FAA has had a rule on the books that airline pilots, co-pilots, and navigators could carry firearms. If any of those crews were armed, as they were allowed, the events would have been much more positive. A firearm is a tool, I do not know why you must wet yourself when one is mentioned, and as such it is inanimate. It is people that are evil, not a simple tool. People feel the same about you dirt bike as they do about guns. Your bike is neither more nor less evil than any of my (gasp) firearms. Terrorists are evil and wrong why can you not say they are evil without giving them the benefit of a doubt. I can't discuss this subject any more, it's destroying my health.

I am unsubscribing from this thread, sorry the humor part of it was lost. :(

PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD

 

[Hucker]

On behalf of the other REAL CANADIANS on this board, please don't put me into the same group as this guy. Maybe he ate paint as a kid, or huffed gas, who knows. Do you think Usama Bin Laden thought about killing innocent people when he thought up this great plan? OF COURSE HE DID!!! thats what makes this whole thing so disgusting. I hope he gets what he deserves, hopefully its really slow and painful...

 

[longtime]

Originally posted by Racers Edge
Take Oklahoma City bombing for example, he did that because he believed Desert Storm was wrong.

Wrong.

Your posts are so riddled with inaccuracies and faulty reasoning as to warrant nothing more.

 

[CR Swade]

It looks to me like we've gotten to see the definition of coward in action. In this particular case, a cyber-coward.

How incredibly noble of you "Racers(this guy can't be a racer) Edge to straddle the political fence, throw out inaccuracies, rub salt in the wounds of EVERY American, sans maybe Bill Maher then hide behind the shield of the Americans, Britians, Canadians, French, Italians and all others affected by this tragedy.

The world leaders will eradicate terrorism and I just hope that you are asked to help via draft-oh I guess you would actually have to claim a nation and become a productive citizen before that would happen. Gosh, you just move into what ever place you can get the most personal gain, then move on-kind of parasitic don't you think?

Maybe you could meet Bin Laden yourself and do a better job-or is this just a case of maybe your true colors are showing.

Sorry,but you DON'T get to spew crap and not choose sides.

 

[Racers Edge]

jamsxr: Yes I have sided with the poor oppressed victims in the world, it would not be right in my heart to side with the people who have put them in this position.

RE: Burma,
The people of Bruma are basicly munks, they do not believe in war and fighting and have been surpressed for enough years that they wouldn't know how to help themselves. I don't want to go into detail but if you research the topic I'm sure you will understand what I mean.

As for freedom, if you believe in Vietnam as a fight for freedom then why shouldn't we help the Burmese? The soldiers that fought in Nam completely believed they were doing what was right and fighting for freedom. I read a wonderful book written by John McCain called "Faith in Our Fathers" that goes into great detail about Nam and how the soldiers believed in the fight for freedom.

I do to believe in the fight for freedom, and have even considered joining the Peacekeepers.

KXaggerator: I am very thankfull of WWII, and I am a
German to let you know. This was a different kind of war though, compared to the war on terrorism. That is why I do not believe in just bombing them and I hope Bush decides agains it. As I have said before, I believe something should be done but something more like special forces entering and hitting the heart of the activities, not bombing runs and killing many innocent lives.
I do believe in aid, butthe US should be careful of who they aid, as you have said they have made that mistake in many cases. I did not say I justified Israel's enemies or the destruction of Israel.

Lastly, I am willing to say terrorists are evil, I just see where they are coming from and why they are doing this. That however does not make it right in my eyes and I do wish this had never happened. Death is a horrible thing and I also have had nightmares of people jumping out of the WTC windows because they can not breath.

Longtime: Prove me wrong, the special I saw on the news was him speaking of his disgust for the US Government. He even fought in Desert Storm as I hope you know.

Wade: If I were a coward I would have stopped posting a long time ago. I don't see how I am "rubbing salt in American's wounds", I have stated time and time again that I believe what the terorists did was wrong. I also never said I was in support of terrorism, I just believe I have a slight understanding of why it occurs. As for your talk if my somehow gaining from this, I have no idea where that came from. I'm just expressing my opinion and being ridiculed with childish comments such as "this guy can't be a racer". As for "spewing crap and not choose sides" You must not have read all my posts, it's quite obvious I would like to see something done, just not mass bombing runs and death of innocent civilians.

 

[holyroller1]

Racers Edge

You have a very skewed view of reality for saying something of this nature.

CNM: Who are you trying to imply is the bully? The American's for stepping into the east pushing everyone around? Or the 3rd world countries that these terrorists come from trying to defend there country by attacking us?

Do you not realize the reason they attacked us? We are the "great Satan". They attack us because of their moralistic ideas. The very government that supports them has received more aid from the USA than ANY other country. They bite the hand that feeds them. Do you not realize we helped them, even OBL, during their past conflicts. Do you not realize that this regime attacks because of hate.

For you to try to justify this makes you as bad as them. I too will never respect you, our your opinions on any matter after some of the incredibly ignorant, elitist comments you have made.

 

[longtime]

Originally posted by Racers Edge
Longtime: Prove me wrong, the special I saw on the news was him speaking of his disgust for the US Government. He even fought in Desert Storm as I hope you know.

Making me prove you wrong on this is worse for your argument than you can imagine. Why? Because a) it's a really dumb mistake. Everybody -- okay, everybody but you -- knew he was protesting Ruby Ridge, Waco and the government's [in his view] encroachment on our civil rights -- particularly the Second Amendment; b) given your strong views on gun control you particularly should have known this; and c) once your mistake was pointed out to you you had a super easy opportunity, using this simple internet device, to find your mistake, and perhaps learn something, for yourself. Not doing so shows you to be not only obstinate, but lazy. Nevertheless, I'll indulge you just this once:

You said: "Take Oklahoma City bombing for example, he did that because he believed Desert Storm was wrong."

He was McVeigh, and he was protesting not Desert Storm, but Ruby Ridge and even moreso Waco. You can find this in a zillion sources, and should have known it already, but here's ABC News' summary:

"McVeigh seemed particularly enraged by three government efforts to control guns: the Brady gun-control law, the raid at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, in 1992 and the siege at the Branch Davidian complex in Waco, Texas, in 1993. He even made a pilgrimage to Waco during the 51-day standoff between the Branch Davidians and the FBI.
“Tim McVeigh believed that the federal government executed 76 people at Waco, including 30 women and 25 children. That was his political belief. He was not alone in that opinion,” defense attorney Stephen Jones said his opening statement at McVeigh’s trial.
The government said that McVeigh took it upon himself to avenge the Waco tragedy by bombing the Oklahoma City federal building exactly two years later."

Oh -- and one more, less relevant note. McVeigh didn't, according to his father, mind Desert Storm:

"That’s about all I can tell you about when he went in the service, or over to the Persian Gulf. He didn’t seem to mind going, and he was ready to go when the time come, and they went to Kuwait. And I believe it was right around the end of ‘91, Christmastime in ‘91 or so. And he come back, he seemed to be happy when he come home."

 

[spanky250]

It's hard to believe this thread started with a title about humor, but turned into a "Bash the USA" thread...sad...:(

 

[holyroller1]

Longtime:

I was going to post the same basic response to RE. It really does show how much he is "up on" events the world over.

Isn't it funny how someone can have on such blinders and think they have a handle on things, but then can't even get the obvious correct?

 

[Racers Edge]

holyroller1: Do you not realize that yes we supported their governments, but the people did not support the government? Do you not realize that the government has kept much of this money from their people? The civilians of many of these countries hate there governments, the palestinians in Israel being a obvious example. And why do you think I justify this? I have stated many times I think this is wrong!

LongTime: Here's a nice quote for you from the Washington Times:" Human self-righteousness will guarantee the demise of the human race of men. Mr. McVeigh witnessed the degrading way in which his glorious country had treated the Iraqis in regard to the desert storm war. This shocked his sensibilities in his view of human justice. The record states he was somewhat disillusioned after that. When he witnessed the injustice with the Weavers in Idaho and the annihilation of the Branch Davidians by government forces, he was determined to avenge the crimes he saw." In regards to his father, most fathers don't realise their sons are serial killers or of the like. I also stated earlier "the special I saw on the news was him speaking of his disgust for the US Government." which you have just gone to further prove with your last message. I can't believe we are debating McVeigh.

spanky250: I am not "bashing the US" They have done many good things but have also done very bad things as well.

I still do not understand why you are attacking me. I have said many times I believe it is wrong what the terrorists have done and they should be punished, but I also believe it is wrong for what the US has done in many situations. If you are saying the US is always right, so be it.

 

[longtime]

Originally posted by Racers Edge
I can't believe we are debating McVeigh.

Get used to it. When people make demonstrably false statements, I call them on it.

Originally posted by Racers Edge
I also stated earlier "the special I saw on the news was him speaking of his disgust for the US Government." which you have just gone to further prove with your last message.

Don't try to hide from your mistake. You stated originally that "he" bombed Oklahoma City because he disapproved of the Gulf War. That was the blatant falsehood that I was correcting.

Please, buddy, you're really making a fool of yourself on this one. You found one article that says he was "disillusioned" after the Gulf War. Did you not also find the other thousand articles that say how much he liked the military, and how good he was at it? How his ambition was to be a Green Beret? How he only left the military because he thought, since he had failed the Green Beret entrance physical, he thought he wouldn't rise fast enough in the Army? How any hard feelings (and that is debatable) were because of his failure? His father's quote that i provided was one of a zillion sources I could have given you. I figued you'd get the point, and that that would be enough. Instead, against all that you have the nerve to state that "In regards to his father, most fathers don't realise their sons are serial killers or of the like."??

Please -- let it die, for crying out loud. Or even (gasp!) admit you were wrong. Have you never heard "When you're in a hole, quit digging"?

BTW -- I'm not attacking you. I am trying, in as sterile a fashion as I can, to correct the misinformation you presented. Maybe you should step back and realize that this little tangent has affected your credibility for the more central of your points? Could they have stood up anyway? No chance. But they'd at least have had a fighting chance had you not shown such a) ignorance of a common and important piece of knowledge; and b) unwillingness to listen to somebody who is provably correct. Think about it. :think

 

[holyroller1]

Longtime:

Once again your post says the very thing that was on my mind.

Racer:

You were the one that brought up McVeigh. It goes to show your mindset. The fact that you were most obviously incorrect.

However not only with those statements but several others. Do you want to be called on those also? If so I will gladly oblige. With verifiable sources, not hearsay. Lets talk facts how bout. Shall we? Your perceptions are obviously taken completely from a sliver of media and probably hearsay from your buddies or whatever. You have not listed one bit of credible, verifiable resource in any of your misconceptions. You have back pedaled, made obviously WRONG statements, give it a break.

The justification of these tragic events is just beyond me. I see no way how any sane individual could say some of the statements such as what you have made here. Unless of course you have the same mindset as the terrorists themselves. I, however, just cannot understand justification of the hateful act.

And please quit saying "us" and "we" when you discuss the USA. It is a disgrace to us US citizens.

 

[MX265]

AAAhh, Dudes,

:think

I did not realize the reaction that posting this would get. I apologize for getting everyone into a rant. I see the majority feel the same as I do. I posted this here because that is how I feel. In GA, they say Shoot first, then ask questions later. This is kind of the way I feel right now. I say shoot the *******s just enough to let them still breathe a little, and then ask them what the hell they were thinking and ask them how they feel now. Then cap 'em off. I am sorry Racers Edge, but if they hit Vancouver, BC like this, I hope you would be all over them. If not, that explains why you do not tie yourself to one country. I have a lot of pride in America, and when I feel threatened, it is time for action. That is what Bush is doing. He is not putzing around making false promises and statements. He is kicking ass the way any American (Texan) would and should. That is all I have to say. I put that picture up there because if it were a true Advertisement, I know there would be a lot of takers, me included. Sorry to offend you Racers Edge, but this is how most people feel when their Homeland and way of life are threatened. Blow the *******s UP! :p

Andy

 

[Racers Edge]

The only reason I brought up McVeigh in the first place, was to show that American's felt the government had wronged. I got the bit about his disgust of Desert Storm from 2 sources, a TV interveiw of him, and my Contemporary World Problems teacher in highschool. But I also did state he had hate for the government in a later post, perhaps I should have made myself clearer. My statement about his father I still believe holds truth. I was just pointing out a father can not always be a reliable source. As for your saying that my points do not hold any truth to them, I find that very insulting because their are many others that feal the way I do. As for implying I am insane holyroller1, that is just pathetic. Open your mind and look around, not everyone believes what the Government has done is right. I have spoken with this with many friends and others and they also say they feal sorrow but are not surprised it happened. I feal I once again must remind you I do to believe this is wrong. But if you piss the wrong people off you can't expect them to not retaliate just because you are the United States! The reason I keep saying "we" and "us" is because I just moved back to Canada about a month ago and am still in the mindset of being in the States and I am sorry for doing so. As for if Vancouver were hit, wich I highly doubt if it were since Canadian's don't go stepping on everyones toes, I would ofcourse feal sorrow just as I do now but I believe everything happens for a reason. Maybe the reason this happened was to show The US it isn't the stronghold it thinks it is. Maybe it is to show the US to watch who's toes it steps upon. Or, maybe it was to show that the problem of terrorism is far greater than we had imagined and it is time to do something about it.

MX265, apology accepted and I do see where you are all coming from, I am just a fascist as I have said before.

 

[jamsxr]

Get HOSED

Dillweed-:eek:

 

[JPIVEY]

Before I bale out of this thread I just want to say that cemeteries are full of brothers, sister, fathers, mine included that has fought in the wars that has given us and that includes you Racer Edge, the freedom to to express your opinions the way we have done here.

As far as the USA watching whose toes we step on, Maybe you would feel better if we step on the toe just long enough to see the look on their face when we squeeze the trigger, There are countries that do this.

The only thing I do agree with you on is Terrorism is a greater problem than I thought