rippenkawi
Member
- Jan 21, 2003
- 16
- 0
Need new sprockets and chain on my rm 250. any suggestions I do alot of trail riding woods riding so should I change to a o ring chain or is worth the cost?
o ring or standard chain?
- Thread starter rippenkawi
- Start date
Keep either cleaned/adjusted/lubed and they should serve you well.
Keep an eye on the chain and don't let it get past 1.5% longer than original length and maybe not have to change out sprockets next time.
Keep an eye on the chain and don't let it get past 1.5% longer than original length and maybe not have to change out sprockets next time.
markthomps
Sponsoring Member
- May 27, 2000
- 255
- 0
If you'd prefer not to have to pay much attention to the chain (sounds like), then spend the few extra bucks for a good O-ring chain. You'll seldom need to adjust it if you're mostly a trail rider, and even if you race, adjustments will be few and far between. If you're a balls-on racer, then you wouldn't want an O-ring, as it weighs more and eats up a tiny amount of power compared to a regular chain.
Senior KX Rider
Super Power AssClown
- Nov 9, 1999
- 8,577
- 0
I have used a few RK x-ring/o-ring chains and they have served me well with very little sometimes no maintenance :scream:
jho410,
I hate to disagree....well maybe I don't hate to...:)
Anyway, if you wear out sprockets it means your chain was worn out to begin with. Worn chains, or chains that have elongated past their original pitch, is what wears out sprockets. You needed a new chain when you saw wear on your first set of sprockets. You were simply riding on borrowed time, as well as a chain that wore out two sets of sprockets prematurely.
If you read and heed what I posted above you can't go wrong.
I hate to disagree....well maybe I don't hate to...:)
Anyway, if you wear out sprockets it means your chain was worn out to begin with. Worn chains, or chains that have elongated past their original pitch, is what wears out sprockets. You needed a new chain when you saw wear on your first set of sprockets. You were simply riding on borrowed time, as well as a chain that wore out two sets of sprockets prematurely.
If you read and heed what I posted above you can't go wrong.
jaybird, i'll have to disagree with ya. by your logic, chains only last as long as sprockets?
chains don't elongate or stretch, at all, ever, period.
the rollers will wear, causing the appearance of stretch, which will wear out sprockets faster than a new chain, but saying that seeing wear on a sprocket means your chain is worn doesn't make much sense.
Al sprockets will wear MUCH faster than a chain, so if you wear out sprockets and replace the chain you are just wasting money. A good quality x or o ring chain will last years with proper maintenance, even through a couple generations of steel sprockets on a high powered streetbike. I usually don't need to replace chains more than every 20k miles or so, or every couple years on a dirtbike.
and AL sprockets certainly don't last that long.
basically, seeing wear on a sprockets doesn't mean you need a new chain, it means you need to get a new sprocket, that's all.
chains don't elongate or stretch, at all, ever, period.
the rollers will wear, causing the appearance of stretch, which will wear out sprockets faster than a new chain, but saying that seeing wear on a sprocket means your chain is worn doesn't make much sense.
Al sprockets will wear MUCH faster than a chain, so if you wear out sprockets and replace the chain you are just wasting money. A good quality x or o ring chain will last years with proper maintenance, even through a couple generations of steel sprockets on a high powered streetbike. I usually don't need to replace chains more than every 20k miles or so, or every couple years on a dirtbike.
and AL sprockets certainly don't last that long.
basically, seeing wear on a sprockets doesn't mean you need a new chain, it means you need to get a new sprocket, that's all.
Bill Hibbs
~SPONSOR~
- Aug 25, 1999
- 537
- 0
An O-ring chain will definitely last longer. The O-rings keep dirt from penetrating the chain DURING the ride and therefore limiting wear. You can clean it up perfect between rides but as soon as you hit that first mudhole you're back where you started. The O-rings also help retain lube on the pivots which also helps limit wear. A wore out chain will trash a new front sprocket in One ride (I know this first hand). It's definitely worth the money for an O-ring chain. Especially for woods riding..
Jaybird, I notice that you sell chains and sprockets on your website ... very suspicious ;-)
The front and rear sprocket were changed at the same time with a new RK Xring chain. The front is fine, the rear is hooked and the chain seems fine. I'm thinking of going with an Ironman.
Jaybird, do you have a woods kit with an Ironman sprocket?
The front and rear sprocket were changed at the same time with a new RK Xring chain. The front is fine, the rear is hooked and the chain seems fine. I'm thinking of going with an Ironman.
Jaybird, do you have a woods kit with an Ironman sprocket?
wsmc831,
I'm sorry for your situation, but you are totally off-base with this one. You are using logic in determining the lifespan of chains and sprockets and it's flawed logic.
I can assure you that chains do stetch or elongate from simple tension alone, but it's a very minmal thing that happens when you first place it on. Some mfg's will "proof stetch" their chains after assembly becasue of this metalurgical fact of nature. BUT initial stretch is minimal with or without proof stretching at the mfg.
The real wear is not at the roller/bushing area even though it will wear with no lube...especially on ring chains that folks mistakenly think are maintenance free. The real wear that makes a chain elongate and very from it's original pitch is wear at the pin/bushing area.
Ring chains protect this area from contaminate and if taken care of will continue to protect and keep lubed that friction point. BUT to say a ring chain will last longer in every instance than a standard chain is also not correct.
Do a search on chains and you will see that I have covered all these bases repeatedly. Unless you can show me some technical data that shows I'm all wet, you can take my info to the bank.
If a chain does not change pitch, ANY sprocket will last, including aluminum.
Dats da facts.
jh410, I don't discuss business issues here. But I do not distribute Ironman brand sprockets.
I'm sorry for your situation, but you are totally off-base with this one. You are using logic in determining the lifespan of chains and sprockets and it's flawed logic.
I can assure you that chains do stetch or elongate from simple tension alone, but it's a very minmal thing that happens when you first place it on. Some mfg's will "proof stetch" their chains after assembly becasue of this metalurgical fact of nature. BUT initial stretch is minimal with or without proof stretching at the mfg.
The real wear is not at the roller/bushing area even though it will wear with no lube...especially on ring chains that folks mistakenly think are maintenance free. The real wear that makes a chain elongate and very from it's original pitch is wear at the pin/bushing area.
Ring chains protect this area from contaminate and if taken care of will continue to protect and keep lubed that friction point. BUT to say a ring chain will last longer in every instance than a standard chain is also not correct.
Do a search on chains and you will see that I have covered all these bases repeatedly. Unless you can show me some technical data that shows I'm all wet, you can take my info to the bank.
If a chain does not change pitch, ANY sprocket will last, including aluminum.
Dats da facts.
jh410, I don't discuss business issues here. But I do not distribute Ironman brand sprockets.
- Jun 15, 2001
- 2,552
- 0
Pretty ignorant comment. WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in china?
I dunno, call me stupid, but I figure someone who sells the stuff probably knows the stuff...ie, does their homework. I have some sneaking suspicion Jaybird knows what he's talking about.
actually nephron, you are the one that looks IGNORANT, jho410 obviously was being sarcastic, as noted by his ending characters, but it's nice you felt the need to defend Jaybird....or whatever it is you are trying to add here.
and since when does selling something mean you are an expert?
and Jaybird, I feel no need to prove you wrong, you think his chain is done after one set of sprockets, I think that's complete bunk. If that was true, you'd be selling chains with sprockets every time someone needed a sprocket.
saying that if you wear out a sprocket then your chain is done is ridiculous...
..oh, and don't feel sorry for my situation, my situation is great.
and since when does selling something mean you are an expert?
and Jaybird, I feel no need to prove you wrong, you think his chain is done after one set of sprockets, I think that's complete bunk. If that was true, you'd be selling chains with sprockets every time someone needed a sprocket.
saying that if you wear out a sprocket then your chain is done is ridiculous...
..oh, and don't feel sorry for my situation, my situation is great.
Bill Hibbs
~SPONSOR~
- Aug 25, 1999
- 537
- 0
Jaybird, think about what you're saying... Surely you could make a sprocket out of let's say lead which is really soft and you could wear it out in 5 minutes. Even if the "pitches" were perfect to begin with. So obviously the harder the material, the longer it will last and keep a perfect pitch and keep it from wearing more. If what you're saying is correct, why does Ironman promote how strong their sprockets are? Why do you even distribute their sprockets if an aluminum sprocket will do the same job? From the Ironman Website:
Indestructible - Heat treated chromoly steel - Light Weight.
Tired of replacing worn sprockets? This is the solution - A 12 month Guarantee!
Engineered, built, and raced by racers.
200,000 psi steel vs. 40,000 psi aluminum.
What you're saying is correct. If a chain is worn it Will cause excessive wear on the sprockets, but it's not the ONLY thing that causes wear. There's friction between the chain and the sprocket. Throw some mud and sand in and there's even More friction. Throw in a few thousand RPM's spinning through a berm and you start getting the point. Maybe in perfect conditions in a lab an aluminum sprocket will last almost as long but an offroad dirtbike obviously doesn't see these conditions.
I'd like to see the technical data that says they'll wear the same. My first hand knowlege surely doesn't back that point.
Peace,
Indestructible - Heat treated chromoly steel - Light Weight.
Tired of replacing worn sprockets? This is the solution - A 12 month Guarantee!
Engineered, built, and raced by racers.
200,000 psi steel vs. 40,000 psi aluminum.
What you're saying is correct. If a chain is worn it Will cause excessive wear on the sprockets, but it's not the ONLY thing that causes wear. There's friction between the chain and the sprocket. Throw some mud and sand in and there's even More friction. Throw in a few thousand RPM's spinning through a berm and you start getting the point. Maybe in perfect conditions in a lab an aluminum sprocket will last almost as long but an offroad dirtbike obviously doesn't see these conditions.
I'd like to see the technical data that says they'll wear the same. My first hand knowlege surely doesn't back that point.
Peace,
- Jun 15, 2001
- 2,552
- 0
Nope. Not trying to 'fight' for Jaybird. He doesn't need any help. He's ripped me on this site many times. I just value his opinion in this matter.
Sounds like you might be the kind of guy that takes MXA seriously. Well, in that case, Jody Weisel says to change your sprockets and chains at the same time, too. ;)
:scream:
Sounds like you might be the kind of guy that takes MXA seriously. Well, in that case, Jody Weisel says to change your sprockets and chains at the same time, too. ;)
:scream:
I can tell you that I get tremendous life out of my aluminum sprocket with proper chain maintenance. I have easily gotten a full season out of a good aluminum sprocket and o-ring chain (that's riding 3-4 times/week on sand tracks...3-5 gallons of gas/ride, March to Nov). I clean my chain and sprockets after every ride (Simple Green and a nylon brush) and keep it well lubed (but not dripping), taking time to wipe excess lube off. My buddy, went through several chains and sets of sprockets (including a steel one) in the same period...moral, it pays to maintain that drivetrain carefully.
Although I agree with Jaybird that alot of the wear occurs on the pin/bushing area (hence that "soggy noodle" syndrome of a worn chain held out sideways), I often wondered just how much wear there was between the roller and sprocket tooth contact (assuming the chain is not worn)?
Although I agree with Jaybird that alot of the wear occurs on the pin/bushing area (hence that "soggy noodle" syndrome of a worn chain held out sideways), I often wondered just how much wear there was between the roller and sprocket tooth contact (assuming the chain is not worn)?
wsmc, you obviously aren't one to argue with. But I will tell you that Ironman Sprockets markets their sprockets for people JUST LIKE YOU; Folks that don't really know what the scoop is.
Bill, do you really think I just rear back and throw something out here without thinking? What I'm telling you about sprockets and chains is from years and years of experience with them. I know them well, and I also have data from MFG's that will back me up. I have forgotten more about chain drives and power transmissions than most people will ever know, and this is all before I EVER started selling the dang things.
OK....aluminum sprockets made of 7065-T6 aluminum or a similar grade will withstand the rigors our sport puts out. They WILL NOT WEAR unless something wears them, unlike one made of lead that will deform simply from the chain pull placed on it.
Steel sprockets are hard, very very hard in some cases. When a chain wears and elongates, it may not be enough to actually wear the steel sprocket teeth....BUT what you have happen then is the hard steel teeth of the sprocket will accelerate the wear of the chain. An aluminum sprocket will deform and let you know that your chain has elongated, but a steel sprocket may not. However the chain will last longer on the aluminum sprockets than it will on the hard steel, since the hard teeth don't give as easy. The energy of a stretched chain placed on a sprocket tooth has to go somewhere. Depends on what the sprocket material is made of as to what takes the brunt of that energy.
This may be hard for some of you to grasp, but it's facts.
The bottom line is that if you take good care of your sprockets and chains, you will see good performance from both no matter if you use aluminum or steel sprocekts. BUT, taking good care means that you KNOW exactly at what percent of elongation your chain is at. If you change it out with no more wear than 1.5% of growth from the stock pitch your sprcoket teeth will not be worn and you can just change out the chain instead of the whole set.
Does this sound like the words of a man who sells chains and sprockets or someone who is trying to give you accurate information? I could just let everyone think what they will and agree that they need to buy sprockets all the time. But that wouldn't be right.
If you don't appreciate the information that I am giving you, TRY OFFERING SOMETHING MORE THAN ANECDOTAL CRAP. Lets have something of substance....something from a sprocket or chain MFG that backs up your statements.
I know I sound a bit peeved at the moment, thats cause...guess what,,, I AM!
It is so tiring hearing folks dispute your information yet they give nothing but their own experiences. Even though they probably have NEVER EVER, measured their chain AT ANY TIME. All they do is wear their sprockets out with a worn chain and claim that the sprockets suck and the chain is the bomb. SHeesh....I need to take a valium now.
(shaking my head)
Bill, do you really think I just rear back and throw something out here without thinking? What I'm telling you about sprockets and chains is from years and years of experience with them. I know them well, and I also have data from MFG's that will back me up. I have forgotten more about chain drives and power transmissions than most people will ever know, and this is all before I EVER started selling the dang things.
OK....aluminum sprockets made of 7065-T6 aluminum or a similar grade will withstand the rigors our sport puts out. They WILL NOT WEAR unless something wears them, unlike one made of lead that will deform simply from the chain pull placed on it.
Steel sprockets are hard, very very hard in some cases. When a chain wears and elongates, it may not be enough to actually wear the steel sprocket teeth....BUT what you have happen then is the hard steel teeth of the sprocket will accelerate the wear of the chain. An aluminum sprocket will deform and let you know that your chain has elongated, but a steel sprocket may not. However the chain will last longer on the aluminum sprockets than it will on the hard steel, since the hard teeth don't give as easy. The energy of a stretched chain placed on a sprocket tooth has to go somewhere. Depends on what the sprocket material is made of as to what takes the brunt of that energy.
This may be hard for some of you to grasp, but it's facts.
The bottom line is that if you take good care of your sprockets and chains, you will see good performance from both no matter if you use aluminum or steel sprocekts. BUT, taking good care means that you KNOW exactly at what percent of elongation your chain is at. If you change it out with no more wear than 1.5% of growth from the stock pitch your sprcoket teeth will not be worn and you can just change out the chain instead of the whole set.
Does this sound like the words of a man who sells chains and sprockets or someone who is trying to give you accurate information? I could just let everyone think what they will and agree that they need to buy sprockets all the time. But that wouldn't be right.
If you don't appreciate the information that I am giving you, TRY OFFERING SOMETHING MORE THAN ANECDOTAL CRAP. Lets have something of substance....something from a sprocket or chain MFG that backs up your statements.
I know I sound a bit peeved at the moment, thats cause...guess what,,, I AM!
It is so tiring hearing folks dispute your information yet they give nothing but their own experiences. Even though they probably have NEVER EVER, measured their chain AT ANY TIME. All they do is wear their sprockets out with a worn chain and claim that the sprockets suck and the chain is the bomb. SHeesh....I need to take a valium now.
(shaking my head)
Real world experience doesn't mean that you did everything properly. And sometimes what gets stated here as real world experience isn't the whole story behind what a person really experienced.
Skipro, you for example claim you have a stock ring chain that has been on your bike since '99 and you do absolutely no maintenance to it at all except pressure wash it and occasionally scrub it with a stiff wire brush.
I stated you either have your info screwed up or you don't ride much...and you went off. Well, here you are back after stating you were leaving this place for good. Hang around, now you have some company with others who think I'm all wet.
Skipro, you for example claim you have a stock ring chain that has been on your bike since '99 and you do absolutely no maintenance to it at all except pressure wash it and occasionally scrub it with a stiff wire brush.
I stated you either have your info screwed up or you don't ride much...and you went off. Well, here you are back after stating you were leaving this place for good. Hang around, now you have some company with others who think I'm all wet.
Bill Hibbs
~SPONSOR~
- Aug 25, 1999
- 537
- 0
I don't think you're all wet ;)
I'd love to see that data.
I do have one comment though. Seriously Jaybird, this is an open forum. A forum for Debate. People are going to say things that you don't believe in. All you can do is state your opinion, show your facts/data, and make your case. PC aside, you need to chill out and stop getting so pissed off when everything doesn't go your way. I come here to read peoples opinions and maybe Learn something not hear people whine and bitch and name call when they're unwilling to. I can get that at a LOT of places... Personally, I just think you're flat out wrong here. You think I am. Cool. I can live with that. I don't need pills to go on with my life. I can have a beer with you at DW. Commen since tells me that my huge chain is a lot stronger than the aluminum sprocket it's running on. Common sense tells me that there's a lot of friction between the chain and the sprocket that causes wear. When metal touches metal, things wear out. First hand knowlege tells me that when I had a new chain, AL sprocket, the AL sprocket wore out in one season. First hand knowlege tells me I'm still riding the steel replacement sprocket I bought with the Same chain. This is an open class bike in the Midwest. Drive trains wear fast here. The exact same drive train on a road only bike will last thousands of miles, but only hundreds on a Dirtbike. Here's an article by Rick Siemens explaining how he wore out an aluminum sprocke with a new chain in 40 hours. He installed another new chain with a Sidewinder sprocket and is still going: Did his first chain for some reason just wear out and that's what trashed his AL sprocket, but for some weird reason his second chain didn't wear out and NOT trash his Steel one? Seems pretty coincidental to me.
http://www.off-road.com/rick/sidewinder/sproc.html
I've stated my thoughts on the matter, you've stated yours. I'm NOT pissed off. Next topic.....
Peace
I'd love to see that data.
I do have one comment though. Seriously Jaybird, this is an open forum. A forum for Debate. People are going to say things that you don't believe in. All you can do is state your opinion, show your facts/data, and make your case. PC aside, you need to chill out and stop getting so pissed off when everything doesn't go your way. I come here to read peoples opinions and maybe Learn something not hear people whine and bitch and name call when they're unwilling to. I can get that at a LOT of places... Personally, I just think you're flat out wrong here. You think I am. Cool. I can live with that. I don't need pills to go on with my life. I can have a beer with you at DW. Commen since tells me that my huge chain is a lot stronger than the aluminum sprocket it's running on. Common sense tells me that there's a lot of friction between the chain and the sprocket that causes wear. When metal touches metal, things wear out. First hand knowlege tells me that when I had a new chain, AL sprocket, the AL sprocket wore out in one season. First hand knowlege tells me I'm still riding the steel replacement sprocket I bought with the Same chain. This is an open class bike in the Midwest. Drive trains wear fast here. The exact same drive train on a road only bike will last thousands of miles, but only hundreds on a Dirtbike. Here's an article by Rick Siemens explaining how he wore out an aluminum sprocke with a new chain in 40 hours. He installed another new chain with a Sidewinder sprocket and is still going: Did his first chain for some reason just wear out and that's what trashed his AL sprocket, but for some weird reason his second chain didn't wear out and NOT trash his Steel one? Seems pretty coincidental to me.
http://www.off-road.com/rick/sidewinder/sproc.html
I've stated my thoughts on the matter, you've stated yours. I'm NOT pissed off. Next topic.....
Peace
Last edited:
- Jun 15, 2001
- 2,552
- 0
...just as you can expect all attitudes and behaviors in a 20 plus thousand populace of users...there's always that 3 or so standard deviations out to the left or right--he is what he is.
I think when an expert in an area reads bland b.s. about his/her specialty over and over again, every once in a while said expert melts down and lets it go.
When I found this place, the first post I read was Rich flaming all the morons spouting 'useless drivel', and that he was going to just start freaking deleting posts that were misinformation. :) I didn't have a problem with that. It led to a higher 'signal to noise' ratio, as he said once.
...not wrong, just a variance.
- Feb 9, 2000
- 3,718
- 0
I guess I'm on the fence on the whole matter but the above statements lead me to believe that we have some data on the way!
If it's data from a chain/sprocket mfg. I'll have to take it with a grain of salt but still, st'll at least give everyone something to peruse.
roosteater
~SPONSOR~
- Dec 27, 1999
- 216
- 0
I use a DID ERT Gold. Non O ring but it's heavy duty and the quality is great.
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