Offroad Park? "We need ideas" Here's why...


Dirtman500

Member
Jan 8, 2004
70
0
Closed! Dead End! Our Sport is growing at a rapid rate and the laws just are against us! I have been looking at 700acres in Western Pa. and we attempted to make a purchase deal but the landowner has hopes for a landfill! Leasing the property from him gets involved and he is worried about the lawsuit issues. I see other parks doing fine but most of these parks are operator/owner parks which reduces the legal issues greatly. I haven't found 1 organization willing to help us! Every direction we head in is a deadend! We continue to press-on. Our park would bring in 1000's of riders weekly!
Create a few jobs and do positive things with spoiled land! No help! Just a thought..
What about ski lodges? How much different are they from OHV Parks??? My question is how did Troy&Lisa Myers Owners/Operator of THE BADLANDS OHV PARK in Attica, Indiana do it??? Hey isn't this the USA the land of the free?
I make a choice to ride and engage in a high risk sport... I get injured or even killed at your park I signed a wavier...... The law says "We never sign our rights away" In the case it was MY NEGLECT that I was injured or worse killed. I'm an adult and I was aware and informed of all the risks and hazards involved! At this point perhaps the law needs reviewed! I haven't found any insurance coverage for a 7 day OHV park operation yet! NOHVIS is currently working on comming up with type of insurance.

Some Comments: This liability thing has got to be addressed. I often wonder if a landowner would do a restrictive sale or transfer of land for $1.00 so that his name is not on the property. If at some point in the future, he may choose to sell it to you or take it back. You would be restricted from selling it to anyone but him or his heirs. While you are in stewardship of the property, all taxes and liabilities fall to you plus you may have to agree to some kind of "royalties." Just an idea.

There is a rumor that at least part of the so called Game Commision land turnover in Hillsville is a scam. As ever, concrete facts concerning Hillsville are hard to come by.
The Truth.... PA Game Commision only owns 75 acres and none of the land is part of the popular riding area! The landowner is just protecting himself knowing how well rumors travel! SOURCE: The Owner Himself!

I got to ride at Hillsville before they closed it. WOW, that was a blast. The Superbowl was un-believeable.....none of the old strip mines dad and I use to ride even compare to this. It was a blast to ride there.

I live 10 minutes from Hillsville. There are guys riding there. I do not believe that it is "open", however. That may sound confusing. Some landowners have given people permission to ride, but these people do not park there, it is generally locals.

I think that they wish to avoid the past, i.e., hundreds of riders, giant parties, burned cars, life flights once a week, etc. AFAIK, parking there is still illegal.

Frankly, I think getting permission from the owners is the only way to fly. They may choose to crackdown at any time, especially if things get anywhere near like they were. Big fines and bike confiscation are not my idea of a fun ride.
*** Owner Permission*** Out of the Question! Source: The Owner Himself... "But he turns his head to locals"!
The only answer to this place being a success story is to operate Hillsville Riding Area under a tightly managed OHV Park!
Now after I spoke to the owner twice in the last year with my partner and also seeked legal counsel on the issue we need to construct a plan/deal to make this dream come true! The bottom line is a deal the owner can't refuse! From what we have learned from our meetings he may be willing to deal if we care ERASE HIM FROM LEGAL TRAIL 100% And I mean 100%!
Now any ideas???
 

DENNY

Member
Nov 24, 1999
218
0
www.PaOHV.org is your source for help because they are working all of the issues that Dirtman has spoke of. I know that PaOHV is supporting 2 liability bills and one is to make riding parks the same as ski areas. Also PaOHV is working on insurance to cover clubs who own land for riding, officiers, and club trail rides. The catch is PaOHV holds the policy and every club who is a member of PaOHV can buy into the policy. The closest people to talk to in the western part of Pennsylvania is Three Rivers Competition Riders or the Pa. NOHVCC Rep. Dick Lepley @ Street, Track, & Trail in Conneaut Lake.
 

Erick82

~SPONSOR~
Aug 30, 2002
443
0
Put the property in a corporate name or a land trust, either way should seperate the liability of the owners from the property. An attorney will need to due this and will beable to give better advise.

Make it a private OHV park, non-members caught riding will be prosicuted for tresspassing. Also, everyone signs a waiver, period. And put up a big sign about the inherent dangers and riders are responsible for them selves.

I would probly set up a land trust to own the property and then a coporation to operate it. The corporation pays rent to the land trust, but does not own the land, get the picture.

I wouldn't worry to much about the insurance if I set it up this way. Just don't be negligent and with the amount you save buy not having insurance you can pay a good attorney to defend you if you need one.
 

sweetjeep

Member
Sep 16, 2003
57
0
Not that I am advocating such a thing (I am). But this is purely for informative purposes (so you can gather ideas as a backup).

There is a track in Rocky Hill, CT. There is a sizeable floodplain in which there is a sizeable amount of farm land. A local Pro has a small piece of this land. He formally and legally leased/licensed/whatever the property as a "worm farm". What's a work farm you ask? Exactly. Hence.. it's his own expression of how to "farm worms". There are rarely any sort of laws/guidelines on how to correctly farm. As a result the locals couldn't do squat. But as it turns out.. the "farm" was utterly non disruptive. Once the point was made that this situation was perfectly OK. He converted the permits or what not into a legit track. Albiet, a practice only track.

So not that I am advocating an end run around the B.S. laws (I am) someone did.. and it worked well.
 

Dirtman500

Member
Jan 8, 2004
70
0
We are constructing a letter to send to the landowner after it is approved by our lawyer. We are hoping that the owner will not pass up our offer! We must protect the landowner 100% from any injury lawsuits. The park would be fairly large...700 acres. Operation isn't are main concern at this time. We have been putting our plans together for several years now. At this point it is up to the landowner to be willing to deal with us through our attorney. Anyone have ideas? Keep Posting! Thanks Riders!
 

Dirtman500

Member
Jan 8, 2004
70
0
DENNY said:
www.PaOHV.org is your source for help because they are working all of the issues that Dirtman has spoke of. I know that PaOHV is supporting 2 liability bills and one is to make riding parks the same as ski areas. Also PaOHV is working on insurance to cover clubs who own land for riding, officiers, and club trail rides. The catch is PaOHV holds the policy and every club who is a member of PaOHV can buy into the policy. The closest people to talk to in the western part of Pennsylvania is Three Rivers Competition Riders or the Pa. NOHVCC Rep. Dick Lepley @ Street, Track, & Trail in Conneaut Lake.

Reply from Dick Lepley 10/03
Glad to hear you're working on re-opening Hillsville. The state statute you're referring to is LAND FOR RECREATION - LIMITING LIABILITY OF OWNER...Act of 1965, P.L. 1860, No. 586. If you'd like a copy, I'd be glad to fax it to you. Yes...this law is on the books, and yes...Pa. is granting grants. Unfortunately, they are not helping the State's riders handle insurance issues. At this point in time, I think your best bet is to talk to individuals who are running private ride areas. One is Majestic Trails in Rew, Pa. That is near Bradford. I don't know the owner's name. I think it is a lady. The two numbers I have are 814-465-9979, and 814-834-1160. The other fellow who I believe can help you is Bob Abernethy. His e-mail is boba@csrlink.net. Have you checked into PAOHV.ORG, OR NOHVCC.ORG. Both good websites with tons of resources. I would suggest you become a member of the Pennsylvania Off Highway Vehicle Association. We are striving to become the voice of off roading in the state by representing clubs and individuals. We have DCNR's ear, and have members on the Snowmobile/ATV Advisory Committee in Harrisburg. We're in the midst of a membership drive as I write this, and it sounds like you and your partner would fit right in. Please keep me in the loop, and I'll help in anyway I can. Thanx for contacting me.

Dick Lepley
Street Track 'N Trail
Conneaut Lake, Pa.
 

NGE

Uhhh...
Sep 6, 2003
197
0
The Minnesota DNR did this

There is an off road vehicle park in Gilbert Minnesota that got up and running a couple years ago.... the interesting thing is that it is run by the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources... I don't know if they have insurance or rely on a waiver or perhaps they are uninsured because they are state owned....

Anyways, if they are provately insured it would be worth your time to ask them who they are insured through, and the details of this insurance.

Certainly sneaking around the law is risky at best for a professional operation, if anyone can ever prove that you intentionaly circumvented the law, they will shut you down and it could get ugly.

I suggest that you look closely at the operations that currently exist, and closely related operations such as off-road truck parks etc... They will be operating on a premis that will closely match yours and as such the insurance coverage would be similar, or it would be apparent how you can operate in such a way as to not require insurance.

Although a waiver may protect you from anyone hurting themselves, it may not protect you if someone hurts someone else while being grossly negligent... and it certainly would not cover anyone hurt by a careless employee or an overtly dangerous condition. (beyond what the typical waiver entails)... Some sort of business insurance is no doubt neccessary to protect yourself...

As for covering yourself by forming a corporation, that is a good idea no matter what, but far from foolproof.... if a person can prove that you are using a "corporate sheild" to protect yourself your corporation means little if nothing as far as personal protection.... (any good lawyer would rather sue an insurance provider than an individual, because thats where the pockets are deepest, and even if they name you in the lawsuit, guess who pays if you have insurance?....)

Good luck, and check out Gilberts operation, maybe theres some good tips in it no matter what...

http://www.gilbertmn.org/ohvra.htm
 

Top Bottom