propylene oxide Q's

Jasle

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#1
propylene oxide Q's general fuel Q's

OK VP makes a fuel additive called Propylene Oxide. I'm assuming it is a way to get more oxygen in the fuel mixture so you can jet richer. This is what I am looking for since much of our riding is at 5-7000feet here in Colorado.

Can anyone give me some pro's and cons of this stuff? Does it work. Is it like using nitros oxide? I typically use wiseco pistons...will they handle the increased temps?

Thanks!
 
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jmics19067

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If you are going to experiment with the propelyne oxide I suggest you buy VP,s fuel called CMP. Already blended no fuss just add oil for your premix and rejet It did make a heck of a lot of a difference on my 94 yz compared to c12. you can definately tell the instant throttle responce to the point that it was too much for me and my trail riding.C12 is much more forgiving and I will stick with that. I had no problems with using a wiseco piston on my short little test<5 galls.>.

It is not like NOX where you inject a gaseous mixture more supportive of combustion than air and inject extra gas to burn. It is an additive that you would just mix with the fuel.

If you are jetted close with C12 fuel and then go to CMP I would also suggest that you start off with a main 5 sizes bigger a richer needle in the bottom clip and pilots 3 sizes bigger then work your way down just too make sure you don't hole the piston from being tooo lean. the jump up should be plenty rich enough not to do damage yet the bike should still run well enough to start your real jetting process.I got to 2 jets on the pilot ,one needle two clip positions, and 4 main jets different in my application but be careful ,patient and don't hold my suggestion as a rule for the jetting.
 

MikeS

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#3
I have used the DRT blend that is C16 based. CMP is C12 based and much better for a 2 stroke. You should go richer atleast 2 steps to start. This stuff rocks. We ran the DRT in a bracket car and the ETs got real sweet and so did the smell of the exhaust. We got dirty looks from alot of people.
 

Jasle

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Well when practicing I have been given dirty looks and people even mentioned that they thought we were running race fuel but we are just running Motorex Cross Power 2T with premium pump gas. Just looking to get the same performance I had when living in AZ compared to CO. Its a pretty good amount of power loss here.
I definetley realized it was not a gaseous additive but I was thinking it would add oxygen like NO2 making it decent to run richer?
 

jmics19067

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#5
As far as I now CMP and/or propelyne are illegal to race in most sanctions check your rule book if you are racing.

As for your question pretty much yes, if you can add more oxygen inside the combustion chamber, you should be able to add more fuel to burn creating more power.Also if you add more oxygen you will need to add more fuel to keep from running too lean.

Best thing to do is by a bunch of bigger jets and a couple of galls of CMP start off rich and work your way down and see if it is what you had in mind/fits your bill.
 

Jasle

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#6
we have some outlaw/non sanctioned ice racing we are following this winter...pretty much anything is legal there... I guess I'll start off with the CMP and see if its too crazy. Does just using the propylene oxide smell like the roses too. I have smelled the sweet rose type smell at the track and I'm sure they are not running regular fuel.
 
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#7
I know some guys that used to use it when running nitro, It can make an engine run like a raped ape, I have also seen it blow jugs clean off the engine. I would leave it alone for dirt bikes.
 

Jasle

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#8
how about the MR2...anyone used that yet? I checked their website and not much info is availible on the propylene oxide but a little useful info on the standard fuels.
Also they mention ultimate 2 designed for 2 strokes.
 

Rich Rohrich

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#9
MR2 is a good performing fuel that is easy to tune. Steve125 posted some dyno results using MR2. Ultimate 2 looks like it might have some real potential. It's new enough that there isn't a lot of solid feedback yet, but I have a few friends who are going to use it in Aprilla 250 GP engines so I'll pass along any feedback they provide.

Forget about propylene oxide, it seems to hold some value as a combustion accelerator in really big bore engines with crowded combustion chambers like V8s, but IMO it's of little value for standard dirtbike applications. It's latent heat is fairly high so it provides some crankcase cooling in two-strokes. Air-cooled RD350s were a little bit faster at the dragstrip using 15% by volume. Keep in mind these engines tend to run very hot when pushed hard so any additional cooling of the crankcase tends to have a positive effect. The gains weren't really noticeable in normal riding situations riding around town in traffic. I think these types of gains would be much less pronounced on a water cooled engine, but I've never played with it enough to generate a lot of data on water cooled engines, so this just speculation on my part.

I'm still a bit sceptical about whether or not VP actually adds propylene oxide to CMP. I've never gotten a straight answer from them. They seem sort of tight lipped about what's in their fuel.

Propylene oxide is one of those compounds that seems cool and mysterious, but I think is best left to the alcohol funny car set. It can become extremely unstable if it comes in contact with rust, so storing or transporting it in steel cans is risky unless it is coated properly and the coating isn't compromised. It's my opinion that the risk outweighs any possible benefit.

If you do decide to play with it store it in plastic cans keep it cool at all times, and be really careful.

Bruce can probably give us some additional info on the dangers that come with it.
 
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Jasle

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#10
Cool thanks guys...I was looking for some real world info not just the "That stuff rocks" type info I have gotten at the track. Guess I'll give the MR2 and Ultimate 2 a shot and see where we end up.
 

bclapham

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#11
Originally posted by Rich Rohrich
Bruce can probably give us some additional info on the dangers that come with it.
given all of these nice new blends of oxygenated fuels we have that are designed around our specific applications, then i dont really see the need to deal with propylene oxide- its really bad for you, i think thats all i need to say really, but then again, what do i know about chemistry????? :eek:

if anyone wants specifics, then ill will look them up- the big thing with all chemicals is sometimes exposure is more of a problem than toxicity- you are more likely to get exposed to something if it is volatile- propylene oxide is real volatile, and real toxic so its real bad for you!