Race Fuels

[SurfinAgain]

My son just started racing about six months ago. He's racing beginner class at Glen Helen and is about 150lbs. He rides a '01 RM125 that is stock except for jetting, Wiseco GP piston and hot rod kit, v-force reed cage and Bill's pipe and silencer. The cylinder and head are stock. I've decided to switch to race gas. I have some questions after reading some of the posts:

1) How does VP 110 compare to VP C-12 for this application? When I look at the teck specs on VP's website they are very close..but what do I know.

2) There's a local VP distributor that carries VP 110 below ground and has a card activated pump so I can get it any time. In other words it's more convienent. Plus, I can get it for $3.70/gal versus $6/gal for C-12 in a 5 gal. container at Chaparral. How quickly with this race fuel go stale and what would I need to ask the owner to determine if it's acceptable?

3) Also, I've been told to mix 50/50 pump and race fuel in an effort to balance cost with performance/consistency. Any opinions about this?

4) I'm in Southern California near Glen Helen. Are there other race fuels I should consider due to availability, cost, and performance?

Thanks for any and all replies.

Ken

 

[KXrider12]

SurfinAgain, I just run VP 110 when i run VP( depends on what the track has that week end.) The other Race fuel is Nutec, and if you can get VP 110 any time you want it i would say use it. I am by no means a expert on race fuels but i also have been told to run a 50/50 mix of race fuel and pump gas.

I have ran both straight race fuel and the 50/50 mix and cant really tell a big diff, pure race fuel for me seems to give it more throttle response, but it cost to much to run pure race fuel all the time, lol.

 

[MXP1MP]

I would personally stay away from the 50/50 mixing, I run straight race gas only. My friend does the 50/50 thing and like a month ago had his dad run to the local gas station to get some pump gas. What happened got some bad pump gas and the bike ran like crap and he missed out on racing. Not to say that couldn't happen with race gas also but its less likely to happen. That and by mixing it that way your reducing the octane level kinda killing the whole reason to run race gas in the first place. Personally this is why I stay away from it, besides isn't like 92 pump like $2 a gal there anyways? I'd gladly pay $3.70 for 110 octane race gas and not really even worry about it. just my .02

 

[SurfinAgain]

MXP1MP...so you see VP 110 and C-12 as close enough to run either? I know most of the guys running race gas locally all use C-12 from a can. What's your opinion on the VP 110 at the pump with underground storage?

Premium pump gas here in SoCal is about $1.50/gal.

Thanks for the reply...Ken

 

[MXP1MP]

I don't run VP 110 myself but 110 in a 125 is more then enough octane I run Trick 110 myself. As long as its stored properly thats fine, I get my race fuel from my local shop. They will stand behind it if I happen to get a bad batch of fuel and they store it, in ground tanks. I haven't had any problems yet they also sell sunocol race fuel and someone got a bad batch (not the first time I've heard of this with sunocol) and they brought it in and the dealer just gave'em more. there some how was water in the gas Like my friend got with his pump gas he bought and ended up wasting 2.5 gallons of perfectly good race gas. I don't forsee you having any problems you should be able to get more life out of top ends running straight race gas cause it burns cooler that and jetting usually isn't as critical like it can be with pump gas. It might cost more intially but it usually pays for its self in the end espeically if your doing mainly racing.

 

[bwalker]

they also sell sunocol race fuel and someone got a bad batch (not the first time I've heard of this with sunocol) and they brought it in and the dealer just gave'em more. there some how was water in the gas Like my friend got

Figure that the problem was caused by the fuel being stored in a below ground tank? IMO buying race fuel from a pump is a waste of time and money. If you are willing to jet close and can afford it go with the c-12 out of sealed cans.

 

[MXP1MP]

I don't know it was so wierd too can't quite exsplain it I've never seen this happen before. I can't remember exactly what grade of sunocol it was, but it wouldn't stay mixed. There was like three layers mostly premix settled at the bottom, then slightly mixed then like almost non mixed gas. You'd mix it up and it would stay mixed for a good while a few hours then seperate again. Sucked we noticed this after the top end in his RM was eaten. Which I'm having to rebuild this week before we go ridding. I just thought it was really strange the gas was that bad especially after a zillion times before then bam! like out of no where.

 

[jmics19067]

Figure that the problem was caused by the fuel being stored in a below ground tank? IMO buying race fuel from a pump is a waste of time and money. If you are willing to jet close and can afford it go with the c-12 out of sealed cans.

I agree 100% the main reason for buying a race fuel is consistency and freshness . VP fuels sells anything from 90 octane to over 116 in a huge assortment of different blends for specific purposes< cant say about the other fuels but I am sure that they have a assortment to choose from also>.So that high octane numbers arent really what designates a racing fuel. If your fuel is coming out of a huge underground storage tank you really arent buying anything more than high octane pump fuel. Very possible that the blend in that tank suits your needs better than a more common gasoline found in an average gas station. So it might not be a bad thing but freshness is a suspect, that and underground tanks is an ideal place to store water in my opinion.

 

[bwalker]

underground tanks is an ideal place to store water in my opinion.

Not to mention diesel, and kerosene that may have been stored in the tanks prior to be used to dispense race gas. When you buy from a underground tank you never know what you are getting. Ill pass on a VP/diesel blend,lol.

 

[MXP1MP]

yea but friend says don't get a false sense of security when buying it in a can even that can be improperly stored. Has anyone hear every heard of nu-tec? I think thats how its spelled.

 

[bwalker]

If the cans are sealed than I cant imagine a way for the fuel to go bad provided it isnt stored for ten years.

 

[Durt Cycler]

VP C-12 fuel is a very good race fuel (used it in my CR125). I didn't notice a big difference in HP/power but a little better throttle response then 93 pump. But for the price difference (VP C-12 = $8/G and 93 pump = $1.50) it didn't make sense to keep rung VP. I am gonna test some Sunoco Supreme vs. 93 pump. Will reply back next week on the results.

 

[jmics19067]

Ill pass on a VP/diesel blend,lol.

hmmmm octane cetane now if I open up my bic lighter and collect some rotting vegetation it should really rip :)

The main reason I am buying and trying different race fuels is mainly out of curiousity but believe it or not when I ran pump fuel I always had a dilemna of water collecting in the float bowl. Didnt matter if it was my weedwhacker lawn mower or my bike. Now what I cant understand is that I dont have a problem in my cars with pump gas. So I am assuming it is some type of alcohol in the pump gas in my area and the car being driven everyday keeps it mixed well enough to pass thru.

 

[bwalker]

but believe it or not when I ran pump fuel I always had a dilemna of water collecting in the float bowl

Do you happen to be useing Sunoco fuel?

 

[jmics19067]

well for the lawn mower and the car it would be whoever was closest although Sunoco was a very strong possiblity<dependede only one which direction I either left my house or was coming home> . The bike was Sunoco almost exclusively as it apeared to be the busiest station in my neighborhood.

 

[bwalker]

That would explain the water. Sunoco gas is blended with 10% ethanol. At least in all the stations in Mi.

 

[jmics19067]

pump fuel blends around here get kinda crazy, I think alcohol is in a lot of different gasolines around here. They used to run MTbe in the winter months but I think that went by the way side so I am assuming alcohol is what they are trying to lower emissions with but not sure. I live in Pa which has its rules and then work in New Jersey which has their own rules. Basicly who knows what is in my car tank. Now here is something that I truly can't understand in N.J. it is illegal to pump your own gas and yet they sell it cheaper than pump your own in Pa, but C12 in a five gallon drum is cheaper in Pa then having five gallons dumped out of 55 gallon drum in New Jersey. Something about N.J. having a 11 dollar surcharge per container as to gallon/wieght amounts for flammable/hazordous materials. I guess 11 5 gallons drums are more dangerous then 1 55 gallon drum if they should rupture :think: :silly: