Joburble

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Jul 20, 2009
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Brake Fix Attempt #1
I bled the rear brake and put some nice new Motul DOT 4 fluid in it, and I asked my local dealer for the absolute worst set of pads possible and judging by the price they supplied exactly that. I haven't ridden the bike yet to bed them in so I will let you all know how it goes when I have. If it doesn't work I still have a few tricks up my sleeve to try.
 

ridejunky

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Dec 6, 2005
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Joburble said:
No it's not an isolated problem.
See Touchy Rear Brake The only way I could use it effectively was to have the gas on fighting the rear brake and that gave it some feel. Had to do that a couple of times, yes it's a brutal thing to do, but I did need to stop.
Did you ever concider riding in a lower gear and feathering the clutch for breaking?
I don't experience these breaking problems unless my boots are new but then again I don't use the rear break as much as engine breaking
 

Joburble

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ridejunky said:
Did you ever concider riding in a lower gear and feathering the clutch for breaking?
I don't experience these breaking problems unless my boots are new but then again I don't use the rear break as much as engine breaking
Hi ridejunky, no I hadn't considered that because that would effectively be using my clutch as the brake and that would ultimately end up expensive, especially when my brakes are supposed to be doing the job. I think the problem is the OEM Nissin brake pads on the H model 200 / 220's but not everyone has the problem. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the disk nor with the hydraulics so that really only leaves the pads, so that's where I am starting. It's not pilot error either as I swaped bikes with a friend who also has a 200 and he couldn't believe how bad the problem was. While I rode his 200 I had no problem at all. Thanks for the suggestion.
 

ellandoh

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mudpack said:
A thought just occured to me on this issue; you aren't getting chain lube on the rotor are your??

good thought- once its on there it wont go away on its own

before i did anything i would get some brakleen and a scotch bright pad and go from there, maybe even scuff up the pads with some medium grit too
 

Joburble

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Thanks guys, but no, no oil, silicone or foreign matter on rotor and I brakleen it every now and again if it needs it. The rotor condition is good. Not too smooth, not too rough. I will be riding next weekend with the new pads (Ferodo).
 

julien_d

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Oct 28, 2008
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ridejunky said:
Did you ever concider riding in a lower gear and feathering the clutch for breaking?
I don't experience these breaking problems unless my boots are new but then again I don't use the rear break as much as engine breaking

Generally bad practice for a 2t anyway. Any time you have the throttle closed and increased revs on the engine there is a chance for oil starvation and scoring/overheating of the cylinder. Engine braking is for 4 strokes!


Keep posting up Joburble. I feel your pain. The rear brake is lackluster at best, and even worse after installing the trials tire. on/off switch is an accurate description. I've been considering the braided line myself.
 

ridejunky

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Dec 6, 2005
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I'm not suggesting using it to scrub speed before a turn, but to control skid on loose soil declines, I've been doing it for 20 years on 2ts with no adverse effect. If your engine is screaming with the trottle closed you are not doing it right. If you want to creep down steep declines, I wouldn't suggest it. When in doubt, throttle out.
 

reepicheep

Member
Apr 3, 2009
670
2
Interesting. The complaints about Buells are always that the back brake isn't strong enough. It always seemed perfect to me though, the last thing I want is to lock that thing up.

Never noticed the problem on the KDX. I'm running really cheap pads as well, which seem to work fine.

It's ultimately just hydraulics, so if you were to change the stroke of the master cylinder to a shorter stroke with a wider piston, then you would have a shorter travel, but require more force (which I think is what you want). A narrower piston with a longer stroke would be the opposite, and travel further but require less force to lock.

So maybe you can just mix and match another bikes master cylinder for the rear brake. Probably easy enough to fabricate a mount for it.

For that matter, maybe you could just shorten the brake lever. That would require more force and give less travel, probably a win/win given your goals.
 

sr5bidder

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Oct 27, 2008
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reepicheep said:
Interesting. The complaints about Buells are always that the back brake isn't strong enough. It always seemed perfect to me though, the last thing I want is to lock that thing up.

Never noticed the problem on the KDX. I'm running really cheap pads as well, which seem to work fine.

It's ultimately just hydraulics, so if you were to change the stroke of the master cylinder to a shorter stroke with a wider piston, then you would have a shorter travel, but require more force (which I think is what you want). A narrower piston with a longer stroke would be the opposite, and travel further but require less force to lock.

So maybe you can just mix and match another bikes master cylinder for the rear brake. Probably easy enough to fabricate a mount for it.

For that matter, maybe you could just shorten the brake lever. That would require more force and give less travel, probably a win/win given your goals.


sounds a little backwards to me (the way your thinking on this)

and too why .....Jobourble's problem is secluded

I would think his pads have softened.. and a new pad would be harder and be less grabby.
 

ridejunky

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Dec 6, 2005
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I've herd of it but never experienced the problem. I curious what the weight if the riders that experience this phenomenon is/are. I'm over 200lbs
 

Joburble

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Jul 20, 2009
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sr5bidder said:
I would think his pads have softened.. and a new pad would be harder and be less grabby.
I just went and checked the Nissin pads I took out and they are like stone! I even tried to push a screwdriver into the face of them (I can't see me using them again anyway) and it barely made a mark.
If the new pads don't fix it I am going to remove the direct mechanical link to the back brake master cylinder by removing the locking nut above the brake linkage (and putting a nyloc underneath) and placing either a spring or a softish rubber tube over the thread that goes into the master cylinder. By doing that the pressure to the rear brake will be governed (hopefully) by the stiffness if the spring or rubber and then it becomes a direct mechanical link when the spring or rubber is fully compressed. If that doesn't work I will be doing a pad chop so it has less surface area on the disk. If that doesn't work I will be jumping up and down in my garage with my angry face on, kicking things around the floor while shaking my fists wildly in the air. However, I won't know if the new pads have fixed it until next week.

Weight: When I last rode the bike I was 195lbs (I am 6 foot) and my friend who rode it and had the same problem is about 176lbs and is 5 foot something shortish. I say "when I last rode the bike" because I am on diet and every week I weigh less. I have lost 43lbs since the beginning of December (19 more to go).
 

sr5bidder

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Oct 27, 2008
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i would love to have a left hand rear brake but cant figuer out how to make it happen with the clutch in the way I was thinking about a ktm clutch lever with the hot start trigger and using it for the clutch....I'd have to start doing curls with my left pionter finger though
 

reepicheep

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Apr 3, 2009
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Auto clutch, then the left hand clutch lever becomes a rear brake? That'd be easy enough... Not to mention entertaining every time you handed somebody the bike to try. ;)
 

Joburble

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I modified my spinbike exercise machine and mounted dirtbike bars on it with front brake and clutch lever perches. I then modded those and had them spring loaded. After using them for 6 months during my rehab my fingers easily do 1 finger braking and clutching on the KDX. However it bugged me that the other 3 fingers were behind the lever so I did a compromise and cut my KDX clutch lever down nice and short and I just use 2 fingers on it and no more trapped fingers. Works well. I have been conscious about hand strength since I busted my thumb in Nov 08 during an unscheduled parking event on my KLX450. Stupid 4 strokes :|
 
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sr5bidder

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Oct 27, 2008
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reepicheep said:
Auto clutch, then the left hand clutch lever becomes a rear brake? That'd be easy enough... Not to mention entertaining every time you handed somebody the bike to try. ;)


it would be interesting :whoa:

but I am poor and have to keep my clutch...I was thinking of an aux. thumb brake using my extra kdx front brake cylindermounted on the left side with a shotened lever heated and smashed out flat and wide and plumbing it into where the rear resivior goes on the rear master cylinder that way I have both lefthand thumb and right pedal operated brakes..

the thumb brakes would not be as strong as the foot operation but would create enough drag on the rear going down hills to make me more confident standing going down hills

I cant seem to modulate the rear while standing hills or no hills
 

Joburble

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Jul 20, 2009
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Yes, I have a rear brake that works! The new pads (Ferodo) simply fixed the problem and I now have a nice progressive rear brake. Did a 40k ride and it worked fine. So for me the problem was the stock Nissin pads. Now I will have to change my son's stock pads as he says his brakes are like a switch too.
 
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