dell30rb

Uhhh...
Dec 2, 2001
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I got this tip from a webpage, that had certian chapters fron gary semics's book on it. (i got it from the book, basically). It works a-ok for me. I'm not by any means trying to get someone hurt.

Dont do it if you are not an experienced rider! I've gotten into bad situations using this before (about to nosedive) but easily saved myself by panic revving, same as if I was using the rear brake, (you bring it too far down, you panic rev to bring her back up). I only use this technique for smaller jumps, where I launch too far back (not enought to flip over on landing, but enough to cause front end slap.) and have no time to pull in the clutch and hit the back brake...blah blah blah. I once saw one guy at out track who's engine idle was set too low, he pulled in his clutch hit the rear brake, stalled trhe motor... He braked too hard and the bike went into an endo... bike was stalled and he couldnt bring it back up... man that musta hurt! Anyway... after seeing that I decided to use the front brake method. I use it very lightly, and there is much more modulation in the front brake, so I only use how much I need (as opposed to just stomping the rear) and rarely need to use the gas to bring it back up. All i really need is a slight tap of the brake to correct my flight... just scrub a little speed off of the wheel. If you try this, do not just grab the brake! I havent done that yet, but my guess is that the concequences would be bad. Just scrub off wheel speed. And if you are going to loop out in midair, just eject. I'd much rather land on the ground my myself rather than an endo with the bike on top of me!

I guess i should have included the above warnings in my earlier posts... so someone dosent kill themselves!
 
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Jaybird

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I suggest you read the book again, dell. You must have went for a sammich during that chapter. :)
Actually, after you have read that chapter again, why don't you post what it says concerning front wheel braking on jumps here for us to enjoy! :)
 

dell30rb

Uhhh...
Dec 2, 2001
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What does it say and wich book is this?
I linked too it from here where someone posted in a thread... I wish I could Find it!!

I have no Idea if what the guy put on his website is gary semics or not. I do know that there were alot of excerpts from his book posted up there
 

dell30rb

Uhhh...
Dec 2, 2001
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BTW, i'm talking about in the air. Not "on" jumps.

I do know alot of people who use both brakes on the face to scrub off speed. I havent tried that yet
 

Jaybird

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I got this tip from a webpage, that had certian chapters fron gary semics's book on it. (i got it from the book, basically).

I dunno, dell...you tell me.
 

truespode

Moderator / Wheelie King
Jun 30, 1999
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Gary Semics book, page 98...

"It's NOT a good idea to lock up the front wheel while airborne. Oh yeah, it will drop the front end, but it can cause a squirrelly landing because the front wheel will be stopped when you land."

I know you said you don't lock it up but in reality you don't get an effective change in the gyroscope effect by *slowing* either wheel. If you are changing altitude by *slowing* the front wheel then more than likely your body position change is doing most of the work or the suspension on your back is rebounding in a way that will kick the bike forward.

Yes. I have tried both and the only way to get a significant change in altitude is to lock up the wheel. The rear wheel is the one to use. You can re-start it with the throttle. Yes you run the risk of stalling your bike... that is where proper throttle control and bike setup should come into play.

See page 98 again for more detail on why you have to lock up the wheel to get the gyro effect warranted...

"By suddenly stopping the spinning force of the rear wheel, the front end will drop. The faster the rear wheel is spinning, the more the front will drop."

This is part of common physics. Just slowing the rotation will not have a significant impact on the altitude or trajectory of the bike at the speed and distances you are traversing.

Ivan
 

dell30rb

Uhhh...
Dec 2, 2001
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What happened to you when you accdientally grabbed the brake lever?
If you hold it while you are landing you will surely endo.
were you trying to grab the clutch?

In one of those crazy, insane bike videos there is a neat clip of travis pastrana doing the front brake in air thing ( he completely locked it up) then landing on his nose and using brake control to do a perfect endo to a stop, from landing. He seems to be pretty comfortable using it.

I dont suggest doing what travis pastrana did.
 

dell30rb

Uhhh...
Dec 2, 2001
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Slowing the rotation will have a big impact on the gyro effect. If you slow it too half its original speed you will get exactly half of the effect of locking it up.

If your wheels were spinning at 90 mph when you left the face of a jump, locking up either wheel would send you into an endo... fast.

The key is modulation. only use the amount of brake you need.
If you use too much back brake, you have to spin up the rear wheel again to fix it. If you only use what you need, you wont have a problem.
 

truespode

Moderator / Wheelie King
Jun 30, 1999
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Originally posted by dell30rb
In one of those crazy, insane bike videos there is a neat clip of travis pastrana doing the front brake in air thing ( he completely locked it up) then landing on his nose and using brake control to do a perfect endo to a stop, from landing. He seems to be pretty comfortable using it.

I dont suggest doing what travis pastrana did.

Of course Travis is comfortable. He is an experienced rider and an experienced jumper.

A person asking for jumping advice 99% of the time is NOT an experienced rider or jumper.

Just b/c 1% of the riders can do it succesfully while doing a TRICK does not mean that it should be common practice (and I bet in a race situation it isn't common practice for Travis either).

When helping others by giving recommendations you need to recommend things that will help them safely.

The advice you have given is not safe advice. It is not what any motocross teacher would advise (see Gary Semics books-he says don't do it) for someone who isn't a seasoned rider with CONSIDERABLE skill and experience and even then I doubt they would recommend it for anything but a trick.

What happened to you when you accdientally grabbed the brake lever?
If you hold it while you are landing you will surely endo.
were you trying to grab the clutch?

I didn't accidentally grab it. I did it on purpose and the change in wheel spin upfront shot me forward on the bike. I was fortunate not to endo.

When I did it a second time, this time tapping the REAR brake, I was able to use the throttle to get wheel spin and hit the ground with some throttle. This also reduces the harshness of the landing b/c you are able to continue with forward momentum.

Ivan
 

truespode

Moderator / Wheelie King
Jun 30, 1999
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Originally posted by dell30rb
Slowing the rotation will have a big impact on the gyro effect. If you slow it too half its original speed you will get exactly half of the effect of locking it up.

If your wheels were spinning at 90 mph when you left the face of a jump, locking up either wheel would send you into an endo... fast.

Read what I said again...

"Just slowing the rotation will not have a significant impact on the altitude or trajectory of the bike at the speed and distances you are traversing."

The speed that you are going and the distance you are jumping will not receive as significant of a benefit from slowing the front wheel as a change in body position will yield.

Ivan
 

dell30rb

Uhhh...
Dec 2, 2001
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"I didn't accidentally grab it. I did it on purpose and the change in wheel spin upfront shot me forward on the bike. I was fortunate not to endo.

When I did it a second time, this time tapping the REAR brake, I was able to use the throttle to get wheel spin and hit the ground with some throttle. This also reduces the harshness of the landing b/c you are able to continue with forward momentum. "

Sorry bud, i was talking to jaybird. IN an earlier post, he said he accdientally grabbed the front brake and...
 

dell30rb

Uhhh...
Dec 2, 2001
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"I did it on purpose and the change in wheel spin upfront shot me forward on the bike. I was fortunate not to endo. "

Thats what locking it up will get you.

When I see other riders using either brake in the air, they get their body parallel to the ground (lean forward) and then use the brake to pivot the bike under them, all the while their bodies are paralell to the ground. Using too much brake while not doing this will cause the seat to hit come up and hit your bum, shooting you forward.
 

truespode

Moderator / Wheelie King
Jun 30, 1999
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Originally posted by dell30rb
[BUsing too much brake while not doing this will cause the seat to hit come up and hit your bum, shooting you forward. [/B]

That is why you teach body positioning FIRST when someone questions you about how to jump.

Move up to braking (rear) in the air only when they have proven they can do it safely. Also, you have to consider the bike, the rider and the suspension (the rebound of the rear suspenders can impact trajectory).

Ivan
 

Jaybird

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:) I just grabbed a finger full of front brake...not really meaning to. (it was mid-air, I got off it before the landing) Can't give you the physics behind what happened other than I got way squirrely and endoed. I hate endo.
To the best of my recollection, it was like being tossed off the bike by the invisible mojo-jojo. He tosses hard and quick.
 

Okiewan

Admin
Dec 31, 1969
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Dell... please. First you post that Semics says to do it. It's been pointed out that in fact he does not. "I read it somewhere on the web"... you can also read about dogs that drive tractors while wearing sun screen on the web.

What Travis Pastrana does on a motorcycle is completely irrelevant to 99.99% of human beings.

The advice is BAD. It's dangerous. People here have tried to be nice, state the facts and hope you learn something. I'm sorry, but you are talking out of your ass. Unless you know what you are talking about (in this case, I assure you, you don't)... DO NOT GIVE ADVICE ON THIS FORUM.

I hope that's clear enough?
 
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