Reuniting with the KDX family, looking at a 01 KDX220

denbsteph · Feb 6, 2011

Greetings everyone!! As the new thread says, I'm looking at a 01 220. I have read 51 pages of the suggested reading and looking for a few pointers. It is stock, it has soupage at the end of the pipe. Through the reading I understand I need to tinker with the jetting. I did ride it this evening. It bogged when I jumped on the throttle at first, but I fanned the clutch and away she went. She started right up, no issues. Idled fine, no up and down running. I'm guessing that has to do with improper jetting. When I got into second and third and fourth gear and jumped on the throttle, the front end came up quite easily and that was in the mud! I want to keep it stock, but get a set of Boyessen reeds, no pipe. Owner says he replaced the air filter with a k&n because the stock one wasted away. The seat is going to get shaved down a couple of inches, (vertically challenged) Anything else that I should be aware of?

The tank appears to have a leak on the seam, on the upper part of the tank, no dents in the pipe, the brakes/disc's are in great condition, nice and smooth, plenty of pads left on the rear and front pads. Chain and sprockets are in good shape. Looking for some "Might want to replace the........." suggestions. Thanks Dennis.

Acblind · Feb 6, 2011

Check swingarm bushings and such, that's definately on the "might want to replace" list

denbsteph · Feb 7, 2011

Acblind: HI have not bought the bike yet, I countered his asking price. How does one check the swing arm bushings? If you have seen the thread on " How To check the swing arm bearings" please attach to this reply. I went through 51 pages last night and didn't see anything, at least that caught my eye. Thanks Dennis

Acblind · Feb 7, 2011

Here check this article out. It's basically a checklist of what to do when buying a used dirtbike.
http://www.dirtrider.com/tech/141_0504_10_things_when_buying_a_used_dirtbike/index.html

Acblind · Feb 7, 2011

and this is a kdx specific one, with things to look our for
http://www.dirtrider.com/features/web_extra/141_0908_used_bikes_kawasaki_kdx_200_220/index.html

David_L6 · Feb 7, 2011

Dennis,

When I buy a used dirt bike I plan on replacing all the suspension bearings (swingarm, linkage, shock) and do a top end job as soon as I can afford all the parts. Usually the suspension bearings on an older dirt bike are all in need of replacement (at least they are on the bikes I find....) and I like knowing that I'm not running a piston that's ready to come apart. Once I get that done I start replacing other parts as I can - chain and sprockets, wheel bearings, tires, etc.... Of course I check anything I can before I buy a bike and prioritize repairs depending on what I find during inspection.

No personal experience with a 220 (I have a 200) but from what I've read, you'll want to do a top end job on it. I'd also have RB Designs correct the squish on the head and do his carb mods. That will make jetting easier in addition to giving it a little performance boost.

reepicheep · Feb 7, 2011

Stock piston on the 220 is a problem waiting to happen, so swap that out ASAP. To check rear bearings on suspension, lift up back of bike and see if you get a clunking when you lift the rear tire off the ground. That is play in the bearings, they need to be replaced. Squeeking or grinding bad also.

Sounds like the carb just needs properly jetted...

denbsteph · Feb 7, 2011

David_l6:

Acblind sent me a checklist of what to look for on the bike, suspension, forks, brakes/disc's, airbox, radiator and among other things. I pulled, twisted, cranked on the swing arm, calipers, forks and could not get a negative feel what so ever. So I picked it up tonight, just got home with it. I feel it needs to be taken out and rode like it has been longing for. I did take it for a quick blast down the road and noticed it flattened out in the top end, according to what I have read that is what it does, I'm ok with that. If I want to ride at break neck speed, I'll get on the Fizzer. If I'm not mistaken the Boyesson reed's will give me some more low end to midrange power.

The shifting is smooth and finding neutral is easier then my FZ1 or the Honda 150 F.
I'm not looking to modify heavily, I want to clear it up a little, meaning right off the bat in first gear, she is jumpy, wanting to take off. May have to tune out or in the air screw like it has been suggested to clear it up. Did I mention I gave $1250.00 for it, he came down $50.00 bucks as I stood there in silence looking at it for about five minutes.

I'll be looking at the threads pretty heavily this week and getting more info. Dennis

denbsteph · Feb 7, 2011

reepicheap:

If I pull the exhaust off and take a glance inside at the piston, will this give me a better look at what you have suggested, as far as piston issues go? I have read on a couple of different threads that the 220 piston failure is not at all common, maybe one in thousands of bikes that it may happen to? No disrespect intended here at all, but is it just paranoia based on what others have heard and not actually experienced?
I'm looking for some good factual experiences. The KDX I have is the 220R, thanks Dennis

denbsteph · Feb 7, 2011

Now that several individuals and a couple of threads have put the "Paranoia" into me maybe I will get the Wiesco piston and rings, but which piston to get? I want to say it is the 69.00 mm bore size, 58.00 mm stroke? Sound about right? Now I'm not a motor head, but messing with this kips valve while replacing the piston sounds like a serious pain in the arrss, is this true???????? Dennis

reepicheep · Feb 7, 2011

Get the wiseco. I bought a 200, beat to death, and inspected the piston from on top and through the ports. Looked OK. But my output shaft was stripped, so I had to split the cases anyway. When I pulled the jug, there was a nice little crack working it's way up the side of the piston (stock part for 200, though probably not original).

After enjoying mine, another buddy found a 220 for sale and bought it. The guy was very frank about the history of the bike. He said half the crankcase was replaced 6 months after he got the bike because the stock piston let go, and the resulting carnage trashed half his case.

My bore was also shot, so I just had Eric Gorr do the 220 more better everywhere port. He did the KIPS for me. But I think you can probably flush it all out pretty easily once you have it apart. If it looks clean, check for crank play, slap in a new wiseco piston, and just ride it.

Thats a good deal for a 220. Jet it right and it'll rip right off idle.

denbsteph · Feb 8, 2011

reepicheep: Forgive me, You have to speak English. Jug, out put shaft, WTF does that mean? (LOL.) In other words DO NOT RIDE IT until the piston has been replaced. Another question to anyone reading this. If the Piston has not taken a dump yet, it would be safe to say that the cylinder is good enough shape for the Weisco?
Thanks to all who have chimened in and to those who will. Dennis

reepicheep · Feb 8, 2011

Sorry! :) The output shaft is the transmission output shaft, which is where the front chain sprocket mounts. It has splines (ridges) that keep the sprocket turning with the shaft rather then just sitting there spinning. The previous owners of my project KDX were not kind people, and ran either the wrong sprocket on there, or ran the right one far longer than they should have. As a result, the splines were just about gone. Nothing to do but replace the transmission output shaft, which means splitting the cases and doing a complete teardown. Yours is probably fine, my was damaged by previous owner stupidity. Given how badly this bike was treated, it was probably the right thing to tear it all the way down regardless...

By jug, I just meant the cylinder, sorry. :) The part that contains the piston.

If you can drag a fingernail around the inside of the cylinder and feel it click over grooves, then you probably need it redone. The service manual also gives wear limits for size, but it can be tricky to measure.

I think stock the cylinder is a tungsten vapor deposition coating of some sort... not the best, but not awful. So if it's in good shape I would keep running it, but if it's grooved you want to re-do it.

For mine, I went with the Eric Gorr 225 cc rebore and Nikasil plating. Nikasil is great stuff, transfers heat like crazy (to get the heat out of the motor) and lasts forever. It's the right "high tech" solution. Not cheap, but not awful either given how long it lasts. I really thought that was the only real option when I did mine. Going to 225 means its a standard Wiseco forged piston size. Out the door, I think the whole thing (bore, plate, KIPS cleaning and timing, Wiseco piston kit with bearings rings and clips) was $500 or so.

When we bought that 220 for a buddy, he said he had a local guy with a good reputation just slap in an old school iron sleeve for under $100 (including labor). Not as high tech, but it seemed to be working really well. Not sure what that really costs, but it's a straightforward job. And if you get damage on that, you can find locals that'll rebore iron cylinders for $60 or so, and just put in an oversize piston.

So I like my fancy Nikasil setup, but there are other decent options.

mudpack · Feb 8, 2011

Next thing to do after the piston/rings is pull the rear suspension linkage and shock mounts apart and clean and grease the bearings. Next, pull the triple clamps off and inspect, clean and grease the steering head bearings. Be sure to torque the stem nuts and clamp bolts to the proper torque readings when re-assembling.
Change gearbox oil and fork oil, using good brands of lubricants. Oil the clutch cable. Flush both brake systems and use fresh synthetic brake fluid. Check all the bolts for proper torque.
Have fun.

denbsteph · Feb 8, 2011

reeipcheep: Thanks for the clarification, I'm not much of a motor head but I do catch on pretty quick. With the right tools and guidance I can pretty much do anything. Thanks for the clarification and advice.

mudpack: Thanks for the info, I have time to get everything ready before the first big ride in April. What type/brand of gearbox oil do you recommend? Does Bel-Ray still exist? That's what I used back in the 80's when I bought the first series of KDX's that came out. I remember Cycle World calling it "an angry hive of bees" I had to have it, so I did. Thanks Dennis

KDXIdaho · Feb 8, 2011

I recently purchased a clean '96 KDX200 for $700 (sweet, I know) and have been going through the same maintenance checks with this bike. Here are few things on this bike that needed attention before I hit the trail:

Loose spokes

Front and rear wheel bearings (mine needed replacing on both ends)

Grease - cleaned and greased steering head, shock linkages

Check air filter - air filters degrade over time; make sure that the foam and glue hasn't deteriorated (holes/tears), clean, and reoil

Leaking fork and shock seals - I replaced them all

Bleed brakes - I used the reverse bleed method with Dot 4

Clean out fuel bowl - Junk can lay in the bowl and get pulled up into the main jet at some random inopportune time; good time to clean the bowl and check the jet size for future reference

Repacked silencer (stock silencer doesn't need repacking)

Check cables - You wouldn't think that this to be an issue, but mine had a wrong length throttle cable and it would bind at full lock. Make sure your cables are correct, in good condition, correctly routed, and lubed.

Check radiator fluid condition/level or, better yet, change it

Change trans oil

New plug

Since some folks have already talked about piston replacement, I'll leave that be.

Good luck and enjoy,

denbsteph · Feb 8, 2011

KDXIdaho: Thanks for the info, some of this I checked before I bought it, but it doesn't hurt to be reminded of it. Good info on the carb and trash that more than likely is laying in the bowl. What brand of tranny fluid are you running? Just curious, putting out some feelers. Is anyone using Bel-Ray anymore? Loved the smell of the Bel-Ray pre mix, brings back memories. One more thing, what type of grease are you using to pack the bearings? White Lithium?. Thanks Dennis

KDXIdaho · Feb 9, 2011

Many suggest a waterproof belray grease, but I simply use Pennzoil red grease. Good stuff IMO and easy to get. I'm not sure about white lithium - some other folks might chime in, but to me that seems to be too light. Tranny fluid used to be a big debate years ago on this board, but the general consensus finally boiled down to that it didn't really matter that much. Mobile 1 ATF, straight up motor oil, regular atf, speciality moto oil all seemed to work for most folks. Personally, i run synthetic atf overfilled a bit - between 800 - 900cc.

Good luck,
KDXIdaho

sr5bidder · Feb 9, 2011

most of us longtimers have settled with the cheapest ford type f we can find for the tranny oil...seems to promote frequent changes and that equals smooth shifting and zero problems..so if you want to spend $15 a quart and crindge at the thought of an oil change that is your business no fights here.

I fill to the top of the sight glass when the bike is on the side stand.

any grease is good as long as you do the task, the factory seems to not put alot in.. I have used the red GM grease for years but recently switched to the marine grade water proof grease, it is also apparently very resistant to soap too (yuk..so buy some rubber gloves)

I have never had a 220 so I don't know if the legend is true about the piston but there sure is enough out there that I would at least pull the jug (covered earlier by reep) to take a peak.

the best thing I could tell you is to buy a new air filter pre oiled and then take the old one and at your leasure clean it and oil it and stick it in a big zip-loc bag so that later down the road when it needs changed you can just pull it out and swap em, otherwize the peak under the seat check will be fogged by the thought of having take out, to clean and oil and reinstall ....and to many times you will convince yourself that it looks "OK"

But when you have a filter ready to go it turns into " well hell I got the seat off, so why not" and you can stick the nasty one in the bag till your ready to mess with it.

It may not sound like rocket science but it makes sense right?

denbsteph · Feb 10, 2011

sr5bidder:

Thanks for the info. There is a K&N airfilter in it already, the previous owner threw the old one away, but I should be able to get one from some where for dirt cheap, Anyone have one they want to give to a new KDX 220R Owner? I took a good peak at the filter and it appeared to be quite dry. This weekend I will get out there and pull some things off and complete a heavy inspection. I agree with the piston issue, I have not started or ridden it since the paranoia set in. I'll be rewarded in the end by being patient. Thanks for the advice and it does make sense. I agree with the tranny oil as well, I don't want a Mercedes but I don't want a Yugo, make sense? Thanks again. Dennis

sr5bidder · Feb 10, 2011

next best advice I can give you is that although K&N may be a top choice for the automotive industry, they have no business in the in the dirt bike/ 4wheeler industry and to throw that k&n out and grab a few no-tiol filters or better yet but more $$ uni filters and go from there.

reports as they may be is that K&N can not filter as good as the conventional dual foam elements and oil and allow the nasties free access to the goodies

with that bit of info about the k&n being in charge of filtration I would be 5 times more paranoid about the cylinder/ piston conditions,. sorry but IMPO thats all I got to say about that.

you have got a kdx... far from mercedes and yugo both..feed it fresh cheapo type f every few rides and it will be happy as a kdx can be. though it would be even happier as a kdx200 :laugh:

BTW yugo is a very dated brand you must be in your 40's because they where not around long at all if I recall right I'm thinking 85 or 86 and they did not have long lives at all..."you go but the car don't"!!

sr5bidder · Feb 10, 2011

J.C. may pop his head up out of the snow and come out of hibernation for a moment and reword this for me or maybe even come up with his own set of clever anologies to better explain!

denbsteph · Feb 10, 2011

I'm looking at the UNI filter anyway, I have one in the CRF. You are correct, I'll be 48 next month and the better half thinks I'm losing it. I'll be ordering the Shop Manual and supplement tomorrow, then getting the Weisco piston and rings. This weekend I'm gonna start tearing her down and eyeballing everything and re-packing everything that needs it. I want to take her for a ride this weekend , but don't want to take a chance of her taking a dump on me. Dennis

sr5bidder · Feb 12, 2011

best practice is to order the piston after you take the cylinder of and inspect it and the piston, it may have a wiseco in it already

denbsteph · Feb 12, 2011

sr5riddeer: I never thought of that, that's a great idea. I'll begin to break her down tomorrow and get a good look at everything.

The previous owner left about a half a gallon of gas in it so I decided to take her and ride the gas out of it. WOW!!! I must of got one that was built on Wednesday because this thing runs like a scalded dog!! When I first started out on her, I was a little skeptical, then I cranked on her in third gear and the front end rolled up, I let off the gas a little bit, then hit fourth gear same thing. As I was rolling into the wheelie she just picked up speed and keep the wheelie steady. I then dry shifted into fifth and she finally came down, only because I began to run out of room and not to sure of what to expect from her. I was only on the bike for about ten minutes. It was very hard to get off the bike, but at the same time in the back of my mind was "change the piston, change the piston". Before I did take her out, I changed the oil. the previous owner said he did not touch the oil, only the plug. The old oil was as clean as the new I put in, strange. I believe I told sr5ridder the air filter was pretty dry, nope got a good look at it, had a sheen on it, not wet but moist. When I get this thing dialed in (jetted properly) this is gonna be a fast KDX. IMO, I can't see how the 200 is faster, in some others opinion's. The bike has a great constant pull from the low RPM's, thru the mid range. The top end on it actually surprised me, it did not flatten out like I previously stated, it pulled until I shut her down.

The suspension pretty much sucks at this point, probably because I have not try to dial it in for my weight (165lbs) The front got pretty squirrel y on me a couple of times, but again, It's not dialed in. I do have a full Race Tech suspension on the my 150F and it blows the Kaw's suspension away. The only thing that will make this bike a complete package is that someone already put a Weisco piston and rings in it. I'll find out next week.

Reuniting with the KDX family, looking at a 01 KDX220

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