Say it ain't so - 4 strokes are better than 2?

[HomeMadeSin]

I thought the mighty CR500 and KX500's were bad a$$ bikes.  I'm sure they are,but they ain't as bad a$$ as I thought, as I learned Saturday.

I went to Watkins to ride with a friend, who just bought an '03 YZ450F.  I'm a died and true Honda man, but Iwas really impressed by the YZ.  At any rate, we naturally progressed to drag racing, several times.  The YZ not only hung in there, but several times actually started walking away!  Now, I'm willing to say that it was mostly even, but damn!

Lemme see, diesel torque across the rpm range, quick revving, no pre-mix, smooth sailing....why did I buy a 500?  Oh yeah, it was half price ;) :moon:

 I have(d) arm pump on both bikes.  I would've thought with as much use those muscles got in adolescence, I wouldn't have this issue :moon:

 

[dirty~d~]

:eek:

 

[NVR FNSH]

Hmm, I've got a '90 KX500 and a '99 WR400. Guess which one gets ridden the most? The WR...... In fact, the KX has sat for almost 4 years.

Brian

 

[MikeT]

Well, the suspension on a '99 is MUCH better than a '90.

HomeMade, It ain't so........ At least I think so :confused:

 

[nephron]

That's funny--I referred to this in another post the other day....a couple weeks ago, with half-worn K695's, I routinely walked away from a CRF450, rapidly. Wasn't even close, in any range from starts to roll-on.

Maybe your bike isn't tuned properly? Worn?

'Course, I'm sure Rich's bike would be a different case. ;)

 

[Green Horn]

Originally posted by HomeMadeSin
Lemme see, diesel torque across the rpm range, quick revving, no pre-mix, smooth sailing....why did I buy a 500?  Oh yeah, it was half price ;) :moon:

Send the motor to Eric Gorr and I bet he can fix everything except the "no premix" part. ;) My 360 pulls hard from the low RPM's all the way up as far as I want to rev it. Sure is a nice change from the days when I was always over reving my '89 YZ and making about 3 hp @ .005 ft lbs of torque. :laugh:

 

[gwcrim]

At the local dragstrip one day, I beat a ZRX1100 (that Eddie Lawson replica bike) 4 out of 5 times with a pretty stock Sportster. The one time I lost I drew a red light. The guy on the ZRX had no clue how to launch on a christmas tree. But his bike was quicker than mine by about 0.5 second in the 1/8 mile.

Point being there is more to drag racing than just HP.

The funny thing about this story is that the ZRX guy showed up with a pal on a Sportster. I bet he got his butt razzed for weeks!

 

[JPIVEY]

4 strokes have come so far in such a short time, I think they're every bit a good as a 2 stroke, but better ??? who knows, I think it's all in the rider.

So for now I say it's not so, but soon

 

[Jake T]

Put RC on a 450F and give him a week or so to get used to it and he'd
still win the nationals. Also, I could gurantee those A class 80's kids could easily oustrip
me on a starting gate, drag race etc. The rider is just to much of a factor.

 

[HomeMadeSin]

I may not have cracked her open as much off the start, as I had new Maxxis rear tire on moist dirt (rare here in CO).  But, it sure seems like the YZF was walkin at full speed and talent has very little to do with full open speeds (I can hug a bike with the best of 'em).

As far as mods, I'm having a hell of a time controlling the beast as it is.  But I will get there, one way or another.  One hair of a turn difference on the throttle can be the difference between landing smooth or wheelie-style.  I can't wait to see what she'll do at DW'03 :yeehaw:

 

[JPIVEY]

I wasn’t referring to talent , I was referring to riders preference , who know s why it seemed to have longer legs, all I’m saying is I don’t think 4s are better than 2s or 2s are better than 4s , besides it’s how fast you go in , out and to the next corner that counts.

And That is just my wild ass opinion

 

[phat5honey]

SOmething is wrong with your bike, my 500 walks all over both the yami and the honda 450 in a holeshot.

 

[ktmboy]

I got flat SMOKED by a CR500 in a drag race, but I think it would be a different story in the twistys! Big CCs' will definately win any time you're in a straight ahead race. Thumpers definately have good top-end speed, but there's a trade-off; it all depends on what you want: light-weight, super-quick acceleration and handling, or tractorlike power, dependability, and high top-speed. Take your pick!
(BTW, I've owned and ridden big thumpers also.)

 

[HomeMadeSin]

Originally posted by phat5honey
SOmething is wrong with your bike, my 500 walks all over both the yami and the honda 450 in a holeshot.

I guess I'll find out at DW'03.  If something is wrong, I'll be damned if it seems like it.

As they say, when the green flag drops, the bull**** stops.....

 

[Mudboy]

In my opinion the best test of a bikes HP (other than a dyno) is a hill out here at our awesome dunes called "chokecherry". For reference, most of the time a 250 2-stroke won't make it up (except with a paddle and 135 pound rider occassionaly). To my amazement my friend could climb it every time on his CR450F. YZ400f's and 426f's usually don't make it, doing about the same as a 250 2stroke. And then there's the CR500's--they blast up it with no problem at all.

This really requires next to no riding skill and is just a HP/weight issue. Traction isn't even that much of a factor because the bike has to keep it spinning hard in at least 3rd to get over it.

As for quads--I've never seen a 4 stroke quad make it--no raptor's bombardies', honda ex's, etc. all with paddles. Not enough HP. But Banshees can make it, and a few built banshees will really haul up it.

 

[motometal]

on my '03 CR250, I don't have much problem with the four strokes in the straights, although I do a lot more shifting.  In reality they probably have a bit of an edge, but I would concurr with Nephron that a properly running 500 2 stroker should take care of business.  A ported and tuned 500 two stroke should spank them like a monkey :yeehaw:

 

[cujet]

Ya know that the stock CR500 is not really that hot, with about 55RWHP. However there are some choice mods that will bring the power up to 65RWHP. A good aftermarket head will help. Porting is a must and there are better pipes than stock.

Contrast this to the current 450cc 4 strokes, some are just over 50RWHP and often the 4 stroke gets slightly better traction due to the power pulse spread.

I love the new generation of 4 strokes and respect the power, still a big bore 2 stroke has the ultimate ability to make far more power. I know of CR500's in the 90HP range. You will never see a 450cc 4 stroke at that level.

Chris

 

[03CR250]

I'd really like to compare one of the 03 CRF450's to my 03 CR250. I've ridden plenty of 4-stroke trail bikes, but so far the only MX bike I've ridden is a 2-stroke. I think a lot of it has to do with riding style, but obviously the new 4-stroke MX bikes are very comparable with the 2-strokes. Otherwise, Ferry & Windham wouldn't be able to give RC so much competition.

 

[smarttoys]

I purchased a 2003 CRF450 last fall but traded it for a 2003 CR250 after a month or two. I would much rather have the light weight and quick handling of the two stroke even if it is down a little on power stock. Four stroke MX bikes just don't excite me. If I rode a larger variety if events I would probably have to rethink things. For now I prefer two strokes for MX.

 

[MARK IT]

Just learn to live with it, Yes its true! Four strokes rule two strokes drool.LOL
Just kidding, but it is a closer race than most think but a 500 cc 2 stroke should outrun (with equal riders) a 450cc four. but a 525 four is a differnt story.

 

[D J Tim]

How bout a CR500AF.(new cr250/w cr500 engine) No cams,no valves,no power valve.rebuild top end in 1 hr for $150. 4 strokes are on par/w the 250s and are obviously going to be on top very soon but halleluia to service honda wedging that 500 cc 2 stroke into the great honda frame ! Bone stock and as fast as any modified thumper.