Siezed Linkage Bolt.

[Xenu]

Hello everyone,

I purchased a 1999 kdx 200 about a month ago and immediately found this site the best place to get info on all things kdx.

While putting on a heavier rear springs i noticed my linkage bearings were shot. So i ordered new ones and began to install them when i ran into a problem. The bolt holding the linkage knuckle to the frame is seized to the inside bearing race. The bolt will spin freely but but it wont pull out. I notice someone on here i think mentioned using a torch to heat it up.

My question is do i heat just the end of the bolt? Or the whole knuckle? What penetrating lube should i use?

I'm using a large c-clamp to try to push the bolt free, and a punch and hammer to knock it free. Are there any other recommendations to apply force to the bolt?

Thanks for any help!!!

 

[reepicheep]

The bolt is the most obviously "stuck" thing, so focus the heat on that. But everything will get hot.

My normal process is oil, heat, oil, whack, repeat. I think the repeated heat and cool cycles help break stuff free.

I don't recall the bolt you are talking about specifically, but also be warned it is REALLY easy to mushroom out that head on the bolt (messing it up, though you can probably grind down and use a thread die to salvage it). The swingarm pivot bolt (I think that's the one) has a hole in one end, so when I hammered a punch into that one to push it through, the punch wedged itself in the bolt. So I had the bolt half out, but with the punch stuck into it.

Getting those bearings in and out may be possible with a C Clamp, but they can be really stuck in there. I used heat and a big bench top vise (and some old sockets) to push them out. It isn't hard, but it often feels like a 3 handed job (hold socket in place, hold swingarm in place, tighten vise, catch parts dropping free).

I did it all with Propane (in spite of the fact that I have oxy-act right there in the garage)... I didn't have to pull out the "big guns".

 

[IndyMX]

I always try to get a bolt started out with the nut on.. And then beat the hell out of the nut. Usually I'll put the nut on backward, if it's a flange nut..

If it's a solid bolt like the one you are having trouble with, a drift against the threaded end will usually be the best bet.. And like reepicheep said, use oil.. PB Blaster to be exact.. That stuff smells like crap, but it works very nicely. Soak the hell out of it, let it sit over night, then heat it up, let it cool, and soak it again. Then beat on it with a drift and a nice heavy dead blow hammer.

 

[plynn41]

I've had luck soaking these kinds of things in transmission fluid. Totally emerse it and let it sit overnight. BTW, if the steel bolt is stuck inside of the bearing race, which is stuck to the aluminum linkage leg, then you really want to be heating the aluminum. Aluminum expands much more than steel, and will open up so the bolt and bearing race can be knocked out. Hope this helps.

 

[IndyMX]

Good luck immersing the frame in trans fluid..

 

[reepicheep]

Good luck immersing the frame in transmission fluid

Oh, that's easy. Just put on your clutch inner cover with the shifter shaft both extended into the clutch cavity, and slightly cocked. That'll keep it from sealing along the bottom (obscured by the frame) end.

Then pour your transmission fluid in the top, and watch it start to pour out the bottom. Between tightening the drain plug (which you figured was loose, but wasn't) and fumbling for a pan after your hands are good and slicked up, you will not only immerse the frame in transmission fluid, you will immerse your stand, your garage floor, and the neighbors kid.

:yikes:

ATF type F stinks up the garage for a week. DAMHIK.

 

[Xenu]

Just to clarify I'm attaching a picture of the bolt in question. I'm going to give it a shot in the morning.


Thanks for the info.

 

[Joburble]

Worst case scenario cut the head and threads of with a hacksaw to the inside of the frame tabs. At least then you will be able to get the linkage out and hopefully salvage the sleeve.

 

[reepicheep]

I just pulled that out tonight on another bike (restore project for a friend).

If that bolt is frozen to that sleeve, that's gonna be a PITA.

Your best bet is probably removing everything else, removing the swingarm and s-brace as a unit, removing the nut, then pressing the whole mess out (bearings and all) in a big vise. Use a big socket on the "out" side to let the sleeve fall into it.

 

[glad2ride]

I went through hell on a repair on one of those back in February. I ended up having to cut the linkage piece apart with an air cut off wheel just to get it out.

Use a penetrating oil (PB Blaster is easily available).

Buy a large brass drift.

Forget about saving the bolt. The problem on the one I worked on was that the bolt and sleeve had become one. It would spin as you mentioned.

For anyone who can't remember, or who doesn't have a 1995+ KDX handy to see it, there is no direct approach to whacking the bolt back out. The frame is in the way.

 

[IndyMX]

After you get the bolt out, make sure you use Anti-Seize Compound on the new one.

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

There is a very good chance that the bolt is not seized, but worse! A lobe can be worn into the bolt, it spins? All the heat and oil will NOT help at all. Take off any preload/pressure, and push it out with a c clamp.

 

[Xenu]

I've had a c-clamp on it for 24 hours and it hasn't moved.

Does any one think i could get a hack saw blade between the frame mount and the linkage to cut the bolt? I'm sure i would have to take the motor off or maybe i could use a reciprocating saw with a hacksaw blade.

 

[Xenu]

What kind of carnage can i expect from just putting everything back together and riding it for next weekend? I bought this bike for the ride I've been planning for 4-5 months. and its been 15 years since I've owned a bike.

All of the bearings are completely frozen or the needle bearings have been reduced to dust.

Does anyone have a the bolt and linkage knuckle they want to sell?

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Do you have the top shock bolt off? Lay it on its side, block up the edge of the linkage, take a punch and hammer to it. There is no room for a saw blade, unless you can keep it angled away from the frame, and into the bushing. It should miss the linkage. It sounds like the bushing is seized to the bolt, and the bushing is spinning with the bolt. Not what I was expecting, that sounds weird. Take an impact gun, an extension, smaller diameter than the bolt, and drive it out, of course a small pneumatic chisel would work better. PB blaster. Vintage Bob

 

[reepicheep]

Is it pinned in place by the dog bones? I wonder if you can cut the bolt nut and head off and move them aside, then push out the collar and bolt together.

Use a dremel too and a BIG pile of cut off wheels...

(Edit, looks like this isn't that one, but maybe this gives you some ideas..)

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Cut/drill the head off and see if it drives out that way. Vintage Bob

 

[reepicheep]

You might also be able to use a bullet shapped tungsten carbide dremel bit to just machine out the bolt hoding the assembly in place. You can get really precise with the things, and they remove material really well. I've used them to remove broken taps in sheared header studs, which is a similar problem to what you have.

 

[glad2ride]

Once again, one CAN NOT come straight into with a punch of any sort. If the bolt is stuck to the sleeve, a Dremel is a sad joke compared to what is needed.

To the original poster, I hope you have a large air compressor, as my 30 gallon was a weak joke to the cut off wheel.

You can not get a hacksaw blade in the space. If you could, you will cut the he** out of the frame. A reciprocating saw will be the same thing. The bolt is strong. You couldn't pay the kid next door to cut through it in a year.

If hand tools and heat don't get it, then move on to air.

GOOD LUCK!! I felt your pain!

 

[reepicheep]

My thought with the dremel tool wasn't to do anything to the sleeve.

1) Cut off both bolt heads with whatever it takes (lots of little cutting wheels... it will feel like forever, but in 20 minutes you will probably be annoyed, but gritty and done).

2) Get in there with cutting wheels and that tungsten carbide bullet cutting head and carve out the outer 1/8" of either end of the bolt (whatever the thickness of the frame is on either end). Try not to cut into the frame, but get everything "not frame" out of there.

3) When sufficient material is removed, you just have a sliver of the shell of that old bolt still engaging the frame. Pound and pry the snot of out the S-brace and remove the whole thing with the sleve and bolt still captive... You only removed the part of the bolt that is engaging to the frame. Maybe 1/8 or 1/4 inch on either end.

4) Now you have the S-brace out of the bike and in hand, and you can take it over to the vise and press out the whole mess (bearings, spacer, remainder of bolt shaft).

Does that make more sense? It's kind of hard to describe, but I can draw a picture. It would be delicate work, but you don't have to remove a lot of material, and frankly if you hack up the frame a little here or there it is no big deal. Once a new bolt gets put in and torqued down it holds position by clamping the whole thing, not by resting on the edges of the hole the bolt is going through.

 

[Xenu]

Thanks for the advice. For now I'm going to replace the bearings I can get too then just ride it. After this weekend I'll have time to take everything apart and really dig into it. If I owned air tools I would start with that. I'll let you know if I make it back in one piece.

 

[glad2ride]

reepicheep, that sounds like a good idea, too!

Good luck with it!!

 

[Xenu]

Well i made it back in one piece and the bike rode great. We rode Walters ranch and Chadwick MO. This bike is so easy to ride off road. I was riding stuff I would never attempted on my kx125.