Spacer needed for X-ring chain?

I can't answer your question but if I may cut in I also have a question that hopefully someone could answer for me.


If I spend time measuring my swingarm axle to rear wheel axle to make sure I am square would spacing out the front sprocket cause premature wear?

Is the majority of wear caused by the sprockets not being parralel or not in line?

The reason I ask this is because I am currently trying to stuff an engine into a different frame and although everything is square and parralel my sprockets are not in line by about 1/8 ". I want a bit more knowledge on how much is acceptable before I continue.

I needed a spacer behind the front sprocket on my YZ125. I used a washer and reamed it out until it was the right size. You need to look at it and you'll figure it out. The spacer only needs to be about 1/16" thick MAX and that will do it. Just make sure that the method Honda originally used to hold the sprocket on is fully engaged. On my YZ, it has a large nut, so I made sure all the threads were engaged and that's all it took.

Don't be scared to do it. Putting the X-ring on my bike is one of the best things I've done to my bike.

In my opinion, you don't need them on the CRs.

I tried a spacer on my 2000. My front sprocket wore unevenly and rather quickly. So I took it off. I have the Xring chain and when I stopped to look at how it was rubbing, I found that the back pins on the master link stuck out farther than the rest of the chain. I filed those down and no more rubbing on the case. I also did the same on the 2002.

Jmic,

I would guess 1/8th is far from aceptable. I think the spacer is less than 1/16. I think that sprocket would wear rather quickly.

Originally posted by James
In my opinion, you don't need them on the CRs.

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If you don't need one don't put it on. I only put one on my YZ because without it the chain actually would rub/grind the cases.

If your sprockets lined up in the same plane before you added a ring chain, and then you needed a spacer to keep the chain from rubbing the case....then you need to get rid of the ring chain.
Perfect alignment of the sprockets is imperative to longevity of the drive train.
Adding a spacer so you can run a different chain is a mistake.

Originally posted by MikeT


If you don't need one don't put it on. I only put one on my YZ because without it the chain actually would rub/grind the cases.

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Mike, I was answering JJ directly, I wasn't responding or trying to contradict your post in any way.

LOL...I say even if you do need it , don't put it on. Placing your sprocekts out of alignment, so you can use a certain type chain, is bad practice.

I agree with Jaybird on this one. Miss aligning your sprockets in not a good idea. Not only would the sprockets and chain wear fast, you are taking a chance on throwing a chain which could lead to bigger problems.

I would check just how bad the chain rubs the case. If its just barely rubing then it may not hurt anything.

Jaybird,

about my dilemna now space preventing I cannot shorten my countershaft spacer enough to get my sprockets to line up. Shimming the engine over will be a difficult project to accomplish. Do you think that if I take and old rear sprocket and make a shim for the back. If I drill new holes so I don't crush the countersinks and machine it down the the right thickness do you think I will over stress the bolts themselves? Should I leave the countersinks alone so that bolts will seat the countersinks together? Or will that crack the sprocket at the mounting holes? the shim froma quick questimate is only going to be .040" to 060" thick. That is if the machine shop doesnt throw me out the door :eek:


Thanks
Jim

jj,

It should work fine. Even if you don't file down the master link, the rubbing will most likely be very minor.

jj,
You can go to chain mfg websites and see just how many different dimensions there are for 520 chains. They vary greatly. The only thing you will find consistant will be the pitch length. Chains begining with a 4 (like 420) are 1/2" pitch, 5's are 5/8" pitch and 6's are 3/4" pitch length. All the other dimensions of these various chains can vary greatly depending on the type of chain and the service factors.
Ring chains need to be wider to accomodate the rings that are placed between the sideplates and the bushings. Some chains will actually recess the sideplate a bit so the ring can seat in the recess so as not to take up as much room and yet still do their job. But you can bet most all ring chains will be just a bit wider than any standard.

Jim,
I want to be sure I understand what you are doing. As is, you are straight with the world sprocket wise, but they are not in line with each other? I take it your front is just a bit away from the motor from where your rear sprocket is. And if I understand you have a spacer on the CS? Can you simply take the spacer off? Does the spacer absolutely need to be there? What bike are we talking about?
And yes, alignment problems are often what makes drive trains wear prematurely.

I am putting a different motor in than what the chassis was designed for.
Just by dumb luck and sheer boredom I have found a YZ 426 rolling chassis and an old IT465 engine on some auction sites.

again by dumb luck the swingarm/rear engine mount just happens to be a perfect fit except for the bolt diameter. which was easily fixed by changing the rear mount bushings in the engine case.

Apparantly the IT countershaft is longer than the YZ. The countershaft sprocket on the engine sticks out to far. New swingarm bolt,new swingarm bearings,bushings spacers etc... good fit between engine/swingarm/ frame connection.The rear axle measured from swingarm bolt to make sure it is square. Lay a straight edge against the rear sprocket and it does not match up to the front sprocket. Although they look parallel they are not lined up, resting the straight edge against the side of the rear sprocket it will rest slightly off center towards the far side of the countershaft sprocket. Or in other words laying the straight edge on the rear sprocket teeth it will rest between the countershaft sprocket and engine case.

The countershaft sprocket spacer I am refering to is the stock one that rides in the seal. If I grind that spacer down so that the sprockets line up the chain will not have enough clearance from the engine case. According to my measurements I can grind it down some but only about halfway to what I need for perfect alignment so I was thinking about shimming the rear sprocket out to match it. The chain rollers and chainguide should not be hard to line up once I have everything straight.
My concern is I am leery of placing a shim between the rear sprocket and hub and wanted your opinion.

Jim,
Spacers are available for some model bikes so they can accept flat aluminum sprockets. There shouldn't be any reason that you couldn't make a spacer for your needs, especially since you have access to machine tools.

I would machine a spacer that matches your hub and is larger than the hole pattern of your bike. With the proper set-up you could machine the hole pattern into the spacer.
Now, it may not be the most accurate, but you could also clamp/mount the ring you've built onto the wheel hub and transfer punch the hole pattern onto the ring, then drill them out on a press.
Are you certain that it would be too big of task to redo the mounting holes in the frame?

I can modify the rear of the engine case so the motor mount bushings will set different IE. machine one side down and shim out the other rather easily shifting the complete engine to the right.The IT engine is wider than a YZ engine so I am going to have some problems with clutch cover and ignition cover overhang. The overhang is not a problem in itself for building the project but I am concerned of finding the footpegs if my feet happen to leave them or finding the brake pedal since it wont be in a natural position for a dirt bike. Think toes further away from each other than your heel of your feet.Moving the engine over will aggravate this problem for the brake pedal, I probably wouldn't mind having to search or be uncomfortable looking for the shifter since this is only going to be a play bike but......

The engine sets very well centered and the swingarm/rear engine/frame mount is nothing short of production. Ths is probably the going to be the sweetest fitting, strongest part of the swap so I didn't want to fuss with it and possibley hack up it's perfect relationship with each other either.

I was messing around with shimming the rear wheel around and then have custom spacers made but the caliper mount/disc/and that notch in the swingarm prevented that going any further

The easiest thing for me to do and probably the least intrusive thing to the integrety/relationship of the parts is to do what I was planning. Move the countershaft sprocket in as much as I can and move the rear sprocket out to match.
It might be possible for me too shave the counter shaft spacer enough and then run a small front countershaft 12t sprocket to clear the clutch arm boss in the case. I have a 14t on it for mock up and I do have some leeway in that respect. I will have to take a better look but running a small sprocket and cutting down the countershaft spacer could be my easiest cheapest way out.
what do you think of a 12t sprocket on an open class two stroke play bike compared to shimming out the rear sprocket? which would you rather see for ease of maintenance/longevity.

Originally posted by Jaybird

Adding a spacer so you can run a different chain is a mistake.

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I know, I know. I will say this, I have been running this spacer/X-ring chain on my bike now since March 2001. I know they are out of alignment but only by a fraction of an inch a little less than 1/16 of an inch. I have seen virtually no wear since I have put them on and do not see any abnormal one sided wear. I have also never thrown a chain after many hours of riding and races. I am not saying the spacer is the perfect solution, but it is working rather well for me.

Jim,
Going from a 14t to a 12t is going to change your gearing drastically. I suppose for a play bike, I would probably opt for the front spacer thing.
However, I'm not a big fan of going to a smaller CS sprocket, as it is much harder on the chain than the larger. It's a project bike...see how things turn out and if you don't like it, do something different.

Mike, I can't argue with you at all. If what you have done is working out, and there are no adverse effects, then all is well. :)

It's a project bike...see how things turn out and if you don't like it, do something different.

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:laugh: that just tickled me pink