Spooge = bad???

wanaride

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#1
I just installed a Gnarly Woods pipe and Turbine Core II S/A on my '03 200. Jetting is in accordance with both CDave's and FMF's recommendations (Main jet = 155, Pilot jet = 45, AS = 1.5 turns out, stock needle in mid-clip position, airbox snorkel removed and lid drilled), 32:1 Maxima K2 with 93 octane fuel, BR8EG plug, air filter serviced.

I did some lugging around the yard with the kids, but then after the kids went inside, I got on the pipe and had the bike screaming around the yard. The power was amazing but the throttle response was still less than expected...I would twist the throttle open in 2nd gear (while moving slowly) and the engine was slow to build up. (NO FRONT WHEEL LOFT!) I didn't hear a "boowah" or sense that the bike was "falling on its face", but I was surprised at the delay before the revs built up. Oh man, when the revs did build up, it was AWESOME! (Ambient temperature was in the mid 50s during these conditions.) I can't wait to get that bike back in the woods!!!

Here's the deal...when I parked the bike I noticed spooge running down the outlet of my spark arrestor. This surprised me considering how hard I had ran the bike (about 10 minutes of 'on pipe' operation). I understand that slow speed ops will cause spooge buildup, but I expected the 'on pipe' ops would have blown that out.

Despite the recommendations for jetting with the new pipe & S/A, is this spooge being caused by a "too rich" jetting condition? What is causing the slow throttle response?

Thanks for any help you can provide!!!
 
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#3
wana, I went through the EXACT same thing (to the letter) two weeks ago. I traded needles (per the recommendation by FMF) and it seemed to help the delay alot. By no means am I an expert, but feel free to mail me at mnnthbx@hotmail.com if you think we can help each other out, since we have identical machines (and problems). Good luck.
 

palmer69

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#4
Wanaride,
I just did the same mods on my '98 200 and have the exact same result. I fiddled around with the air screw a bit but wasn't able to get rid of the delay. When I'm riding on the trails I don't notice it at all so I've kind of blown it off. I'd love to know how to deal with it though.
All my two strokes make some amount of spooge. The question isn't whether you are going to get it, but how much you are going to get. I wouldn't go any leaner on your jetting unless you do the plug chops and are absolutely sure of the results. I can tell you that with my bike, I get the occasional plink from the cylinder when shutting the throttle from close to wide open. I never noticed this before so I'm wondering if I might be a bit lean on the pilot.
 
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#5
Does everyone run the KDXs at 32:1? I ran my ATK at 50:1 and then 40:1 with Bel Ray H1R full-synthetic. After a couple of tanks of 32:1 I'm thinking I'll go back to a little less oil on my '03 220. I haven't noticed any spooge yet, but it smokes like crazy (36 miles total). Are people getting the same "hesitation" with the Gnarly desert pipe, or is it just the woods pipe?
 

Smit-Dog

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#6
I ran Mobil MX-2T at 32:1 for the first tank when the bike was new, and then ran it at 40:1 (same oil). Zero spooge.

After reading a bunch of articles on pre-mix ratios, and it's affect on horsepower, the last few tanks I ran 32:1. Can't say that I noticed much of a difference, but the temps were also quite a bit cooler when I ran the last few tanks. Did notice a slight amount more spooge. I'd probably end up going to 36:1 and split the difference if I was going to keep the bike.
 

wanaride

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#7
John, I don't think the hesitation is a function of the exhaust pipe; I think it is a function of the jetting/needle combination. Mnnthbx says he cured his hesitation problem with a needle change...I need to pick his brain on that one.

I'd like to do a WOT plug chop but I don't have anyplace nearby where I can ride for 20-30sec in ANY gear!

And Twiztid One...I thought that cooler weather tends to lean out the fuel/air mixture into the carb (air density increases with decreasing temperature, meaning more air per unit volume of fuel/air), and that this would mean rich jetting would tend to improve (get leaned out) when the temperature drops???
 
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JCW

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#9
Move the needle up to the "next to the top" clip or top clip (leaner) and I believe you will see the throttle response improve greatly. I have an O3 with the same jetting you have and it did the same thing until I moved the needle up to the top or next to the top position.

I have heard several people say (and so do I) that the stock needle will not work good in the middle or lower (richer) clip positions. In addition to much better throttle response, it will lean out the jetting a little more and help eliminate the spooge.

JCW
 

wanaride

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#10
JCW, thanks, I'll try that. I also ordered a 1173K needle and I'll try that out too.

Part of my problem thus far is not knowing the difference between rich and lean throttle response. Hopefully I'm close now...
 
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#11
Lower the needle to the next to the top clip position as JCW said. Run 40 to 1 synthetic oil. Then if you do not have what you want response wise and spoose wise, reduce the pilot jet one size. I don't think you can hurt your engine with a leaner jet in the primary if it does not try to run away. It took me a long time to discover that the primary was the culprit on most of my spoose. (after the main jet was right)
 
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#12
Have you modified or tossed your air box lid yet? It might help a little and it's free.
 

canyncarvr

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#13
1. re: 'I understand that slow speed ops will cause spooge buildup, but I expected the 'on pipe' ops would have blown that out.'

It did...thus, 'spooge running down the outlet of my spark arrestor.'

While it's theoretically possible to have every circuit of the carb spot on and all transitions between circuits perfect.......it's pretty unlikely to ever happen. If you pay some attention to jetting and are happy with the bike's performance, a drip or two of spooge isn't anything to worry about.

Regarding throttle response in your case...keep after it. It can be resolved. There are a lot of factors to consider when trying to sort out low end response. Jetting is a big issue, AS adjustment also. Reed cage construct and reed composition/type/condition have a lot to do with it, too. So can the packing in your TCII.

Clip/2 is a good change to try...and don't forget tinkering with the AS! Little bits at a time...and run the bike a good bit with setting <a> before you change it to setting <b>.

Have fun!
 
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#14
I had to richen the main to turn the hesitation into a lightly to moderately pulling flat spot when I "wicked" the throttle. I tried many different needles and needle positions and am still not completely happy with the results yet. I still have yet to perform a leak-down test to make sure I have no other engine issues. I checked out the dyno charts on Canadian Dave's web site and can graphically see the hesitation that we all(?) deal with in the mid 4000 RPM range. I, too, would like to hear what people on this site do to deal with this hesitation problem. I will continue to systematically work through the process of elimination to rectify this situation. I may end up with the RB carb mod and porting before I'm finished. Has anyone reading this had the problem eliminated through porting? If so, who did your porting? My testing has been done with both the -30 and -35 FMF pipes.
 

canyncarvr

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#15
re: 4000 rpm range

It's throttle position, not rpm range/band that's the issue.

While I can't say jetting will resolve the issue in a stock (off the floor) bike, I know I can make the problem come and go in my bike with an air screw (mis)adjustment.

Yes, I realize that such adjustment (air screw) is different in an rb modified carb than the oem pwk.