standing up

rda

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#1
hi,

first off 6'4", 01 ktm 300, cr hi bars, stock seat, enduro, h.s, trail riding

i have been trying off and on for the last 10 years to learn to ride standing up. i have tried taller bars, bar risers, tall seat foam, etc. but i never feel natural in this position. i usually go slower and crash. how do i fight the feeling of going over the bars, or being ripped off the back?

i know i'll never get any faster till i learn how to do this.

thanks
 
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taraker

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#2
I had this problem and discovered a simple solution

Just do it.

After a few weeks your speeds will get back to normal & you will feel more in control of the bike. I also find it easier to squeeze the bike with my legs and hold on alittle looser with my upper body.

Now my speeds are starting to dramatically increase so I am grateful that I just started doing it, regardless of how unnatural it felt.......
 

Smokin Joe

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#3
I'm Only 6' 1" but taller seat & bars definitely helped me.

With that being said, I probably only stand 40% of the time, especially if you include fatique induced sit-down-itus. Even when I'm standing, it is usually in a very low crouch just off the seat, gripping with my inner thighs, but slightly back, upper body bent forward and elbows up but in to avoid trees. :D My version of the "attack position gives me more balance and allows me to move forward, backward, down onto the seat and back up into the crouch as needed. With the taller seat I've also found that just raising up slightly but not quite off is all that is needed sometimes. However, I've never felt comfortable standing straight up tall; it definitely feels awkward and takes too much energy to ride in that position for extended periods. With all that being said, I probably spend more time in the "survival slump", but I'm workin' on that. :confused:

Joe
 

bbbom

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#4
What Taraker said!! Just do it.

I try to stand most of the time I'm out. I try to stand as much as possible on the easy stuff or when I'm following the kids. I have found it feels more natural when you do get to the more technical stuff. Rear braking has been the hardest part for me to gain confidence in while standing. Just seems like when I'm standing it's farther to the ground when I fall.
 

TexKDX

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#5
RDA, here are a few comments I hope you find helpful.

Lever placement and rear brake placement are critical to operating the bike while standing with confidence. So is the angle of the bars. Most people have them pulled back too far (bars); loosen them up and roll them forward. Next, move your levers in/out until your index finger fits in the crook of the lever. Angle the levers down at about 30 degrees below horizontal. Do this with the bike on the ground and you on it, not up on a stand, to get the angle right. Adjust the front brakle and clutch so they work as needed with two fingers on the levers (index and middle) and two on the bars. Adjust the engagement on the clutch so it is disengaged just prior to the lever making contact with the two fingers on the bar. Same idea for the front brake. As a confidence booster, go ahead and make your rear brake the perfect height for standing. You can adjust it for compromise later, but for now make it perfect for standing. Why? See the last two paragraphs.

Secondly, you are not just trying to stand, rather trying to be in the "attack" position. This involves bending at the waist, knees basically straight, arms bent, elbows up. Now for the trick - holding this position using your stomach and back muscles, not resting your weight on your arms. Arms should be relaxed and not carrying the weight.

The standing/attack position is all about agressive, planned riding, not reactive riding. Your weight will shift forward in anticipation of accelerating, and back in anticipation of braking. Again the trunk muscles control this, not pushing and pulling on the bars. Getting away from that falling off the front/back feeling comes from anticipation and planning. Anticipation and planning are facilitated by looking further down the trail and thru the woods to see what is coming up and being ready for it.

Next comes the transition from sitting to standing and back again. Sitting has its own attack position with the head over/ahead of the bars, elbows up, body well forward in the seat so the bike can pivot around your body.

Finally, to Taraker's point, you'll have to just go do it. Go ride, the WHOLE RIDE, everything on the ride, standing. Experiment with turning, braking, accelerating, etc. It can all be done standing, trust me. It is the way I learned, work on the position some with a friend, get the controls right, and just go do it all day. Heck, take the seat off if you have to, but just go do it. After 30 or 40 miles you will be better at standing, no doubt. Once you are comfortable standing then you can work in transitions to/from sitting.

On the day you go stand all day, try this - relax the upper body and steer the bike with the pegs. That is the dirty little secret about motorcycles - the handlebars are just a convenient place to put the controls. A two wheeled single axis vehicle steers from weight input behind the pivot point, not by manually twisting the pivot point. Yes, brakes and throttle effect it too, but the peg thing is mucho important.

Let us know how it goes. I think the control placement and operating them with four fingers and two thumbs on the bars at all times will go a long way to making you more comfortable up there. The trunk muscle thing will come with time and training.
 
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rda

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#6
thanks

thanks guys!

i'm racing the 2 day qualifier in southern oh this weekend, i'll try and practice some of these tips there.
 

TexKDX

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#7
Re: thanks

Originally posted by rda
thanks guys!

i'm racing the 2 day qualifier in southern oh this weekend, i'll try and practice some of these tips there.
OK, where's the "green with envy" smiley when you need it!! Have a great ride over there in SO OH. I did my first enduro back 16 years ago over there at Athens and will never forget it. It was 14 years later when I did another one. Just last week I found the score card and release form from the event stuffed in an ancient fanny pack.
 
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#8
Tex

Props to you on your description for attack position, that hit the nail on the head. The keys are anticipation of the terrain.:cool:
 

TexKDX

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#9
Thanks, Shafft. You one bad mo'fo' :p .

One point I kinda hinted about in the earlier post could use some emphasis. During acceleration and braking, you should feel the bike and your weight working thru the pegs. When braking, have your weight back and feel your body driving down thru the pegs pushing both wheels into the dirt. On acceleration, feel the bike pushing you thru the bottom of your feet. The arms are holding on but not pulling back.