Story.The Life and times of the WP Racing Service.

[Jeremy Wilkey]

The life and times of the WP Racing service tour..


Greetings DRN! Your moderator has returned from the first segment of his US WP racing Service tour.. Man what a story.. It’s been an interesting 6 weeks. I have missed checking in here on a regular basis, but duty called and I hope my recap of the stories is at least half way interesting and funny…


Segment One..

The Mossier Valley GNC.. I’ve been working on my deal with KTM and Amateur team for some time and Texas was the first installment.. We had spent lots of time going over everything in prep for what would I might have to do. We are in the process of getting a new service truck, (More on that later) and there was no hope in getting the old grey mayor down to the lone star state.. So "Shaggy" from Straight Line volunteered to provide a decent work environment..

I’ve been involved with Airport Suspension travel for years but after Sept 11 it’s been way more of a challenge to get stuff on plans.. Especially strange shaped objects that look like bombs or guns.. And to the average airport screener, a shock absorber looks a little dodgy.. Normally I pack quite a load, but Texas was the first Round installment With KTM and that meant I had to be prepared for anything.. (In quantity)

I had two whole sets of 01 SXS 10 shock springs, 10 pairs of fork springs, valves seals and tools.. Around 210 lbs all together.. I’ve got a huge travel bag with wheels and a handle that will hold 150lbs easy.. Then I’ve got a back pack that will hold 72 lbs.. (I know the hard way..)

After the guy loading the remote parking bus offers too load my bag I worn him that it’s heavy… This was a big dude BTW.. And he looked at me with this I could step on you little twerp, I can handle your bag.. So I stepped aside as the 250+ dude reached down with a determination gave my bag a hearty tug.. That dork took a few steps down the stairs and almost fell completely out of the bus.. With a smile on my face I reminded him and lifted my bag into the bus.. The questions kept coming about what I had in the bag, I returned that I had suspension components.. After the third or forth time he asked I said “My brother, he like traveling with me”. He looked back at me with this I better shut up look.. I could see the numbers adding up..”This dude walked half a mile with all this stuff with a smile on his face I’ll leave it be..”

I step up to the line and wait my turn.. Craftily I swing my bag up on the scale as if it was pillow.. The guy behind the counter looks at me like I half crazy.. “Mr. Wilkey” your bag weights over 200 lbs.. We can’t accept that. He informed me .. “Well what can we do.?”

It was simple.. 1 carry on bag, as heavy as you want, but it must fit in that box.. So it’s a density thing I’m thinking..

And 2 carry on but not over 70 each.. And he’s giving me this look like you’re screwed…. Well apparently he does not know me.. My God after all I’ve been through? I mean I got a Degree from an Accredited University, but you’d think I never passed 5th Grade spelling.. It’s all about persistence.. Force Vs Time…… Calmly I note the weights of each package… I open the suitcase and he gets all panicked.. Sir you can’t do that here.. I have to leave the counter.. So I step 2 feet from the entrance of the line and de bag.. The looks I got were a real treat, as I stuffed under wear, socks and cloths in shock springs.. But At this point in the game, there was no hope in dignity.. I had to be on a plane to Texas..

After some calculations I had figured my weight closely, and had managed to stuff nearly 70 lbs into my brief case, and “personal items” That left me to distribute the other stuff in the bag and back pack.. I stepped back into line waited my turn only to be off a few pounds.. Back I went, and when I came in 2 heavy on the back pack the dude looked the other way.. Good thing I saved enough time!

After getting searched I was almost to my gate when a shock spring feel out of my bulging Brief case.. Have you seen how far a shock spring bounces when it falls on a hard floor? Wooh! .. I was going to Texas!



Getting out to the track was fairly complex.. MosierValley sets on dump… But eventually I found it.. It was late and I had lots to do..

 

[Jeremy Wilkey]

Here is the Track at night.. A very cool layout with excellent prep.. The Track brings out some really wide challanges to the suspension.. Lots of bumps with big jumps.. And since they keep it well watered the surface gets really big ruts..

 

[Jeremy Wilkey]

Shaggy And i had lots going on.. We;ve been devlopoing new piston ring sizes and materails for many of our shocks.. It's been really a intresting process..

Besides sorting these things out we had several riders to work wit Besides KTM Guys.. Going Back to a string we had before this time we had a string about shock body Sezeuire.. Doug you reading this? Well dude I applogize.. Beacuse Shane And I spent 2 dys trying to get a hnalde on a problem that did not exists? Well the sezuire problem occurs..

 

[Jeremy Wilkey]

If you look at the back of this shock you may notice something intresting? Well thats a Progressive Spring.. This Riders Is Cody Dicky, His Father Troy and Chuck Ware who is one of main Guys with KTM's Ametuer program.. (I'm sure you've seen him at a SX near you..) Cody is one of KTM's hot new Prospecs...

After all the packing the world, I still was back ordered a ton of spring sizes.. I was forced to run and in effect revisit the Progressive issues.. Racing is funny.. Bill from Bills pipes once told me.. If tiying a beer can on your cilencer made you go faster then you'd do it.. Well after not runnign progressives for alomost a year we went for it... And I guess hell froze over beacusre after some tweaking we had them working better than ever.. We are in the final stages of testing and using Progressives across the board..

 

[Jeremy Wilkey]

Well there is much more to this story... Looking at the next few days we've got A SXS 02 review with Lance Smail in Washinton State.
We've got a test Sesion and subsequent defection of Factory Kawasaki Offroad rider Chuck Woodford to our Camp.
White Brothers FourStroke Race in Ca,
And WMGP....

I'll keep posting over the next few days..

 

[Blade]

I noticed Woodford`s KX was sporting MX-Tech stickers on the forks , shock was marked too. He should provide some good R&D for you.

 

[John Curea]

Blade

Wow! Someone picked up the MX-TECH sticker on Woddfords bike!!

I had the good fortune of working and getting him dialed in before Loretta Lynn GNCC. Chuck is a very hard working talented rider whom we are very pleased to sponsor. He rides every single day, he won the Parts Unlimited Offroad series opener 2 weekends ago and finished 8th overall last Sunday at LL.

As for the R&D work, we already have him on a 32mm cartridge conversion on a 02 KX fork, should be interesting.......next item will be a "postion sensitive , low volume" (PSLV) bladder modification presently in the works for the offroad gang.

The sticker you seen was a pre-production version ( my sticker company hadnt gotten the new ones off the press at time) we had to use our desktop printer with some laminate. It was a little rough, but it got the name out!!

 

[Blade]

I always check out what the factory guys are running. I almost brought my camcorder to tape and slow motion review them at rough points on the course but I decided not to at the last minute. I like to hike the whole course and the camcorder gets in the way. Maybe I will record them at Sparta if I make that race.

The 32mm cartridge conversion sounds interesting. I`m not sold on bladders yet but I only know what little is in print about them , the Enzo cannisters would seem to do a better job of the same idea to me.

 

[cp380sx]

Jeremy, Mosier Valley has been my local track for the last 25 years. I am afraid that we will lose it in the next few years due to developement. That will be a sad day.

I hope you had a good time at the GNC. I missed it this year due to business.

 

[slideways11]

Jer Ill let you in on a secret when transporting suspension components on the airlines. Buy one of those carbon fiber looking golf club bags on wheels. I have been using one for two years flying back and forth to the states. This is the drill when they ask you are you going to play golf? Just say yes. I have yet to have them ask me to open the bag.

 

[Jeremy Wilkey]

More on the body shock temperature issues..

Shane and I had spent some talking about the string involving the shock bore problems. Well I've never seen a shock seize as described and my check ins with Kawasaki indicated that the problem described was a myth..


Well as the weekend went on Shane and Ran across one! Kyle Williams who is a fast Texas Rider approached us about what could be wrong with his shock.. We where amazed to learn that the problem was not a linkage bolt, but rather the shock!

We rebuilt the shock and assumed it was going to be something logical.. Well besides a really soft valving and a huge spring we were suprised to find nothing logically wrong..

We reworked the shock with fresh oil and a good bleed. To the fence to watch we went.. The shock lasted longer and did not seize, accorading to the rider, however later in the day after a very long moto the shock did "it" again...

We decided to build up another shock with our valving and set-up to see if he would do it with that set-up.. He had no problems and was pleased.. We where measuring over 200 + with Kyle in his 250 Expert class moto..

The best threory we currently have is that the casting of the body changes dimensions as the shock extreme heats.. Mods or build that lower heat lower the potential problem.. Either way this is the first time its happened for either of us.


More Later


Regards,
JEr

 

[Jeff Howe]

Now I'm curious. So what was it that you would say was the difference between "your stuff" and what was in there that solved the problem? Does a stock piston with bigger ports run the shock hotter?? Is the material difference the key? If so, would a RT brass piston exhibit this tendency like a steel unit? Or does the fact that huge port not shearing as much fluid help it out? I'm stumped on this deal, really I am.

Are teams like YOT that are running Enzo setups using special piston materials or what? Enzo uses stock valves don't they? Are they "works" shocks? Lots of privateers run Enzo, I would assume they are not getting anything special in the shock...but I really have no idea what they do there. How about PC KYB setups? I've heard they run the old style shock piston??

Anyway, Doc mentioned going back to a narrower piston or was using some aftermarket part to solve his problem. So the theory involves an "ovalizing" of the body as it heats, but then it is likely you'd lose all damping or it would get WAY soft and kick from a fast rebound, wouldn't it?? This totally blows my mind. Keep the info coming.

 

[Jeremy Wilkey]

Shocknut,
Thanks for the post now I can answer some questions.. I have a direction..

No... I'm quite sure that our piston and mods would have done the same thing with his body... What I'm saying was is that things that caused the shock to heat more seemed to make the problem worse. When we put him on a shock that had been bleed properly but used the bad body he got a longer use out of it before it happened..

With our limited opertunity we only got to conduct a few motos and practices worth of tests.. But here is my thoughts.. Between my company, all my SA's and you how often has this ever happened? 1 time..

What really surprised me however is that the body was not worn.. But Kyle had been having this problem all year.. Werid huh.. Apperently it only ovoauls out at very high temps..

Regards,
Jer

 

[Blade]

Could the body have been slightly oval from the factory honing but still round enough to get past quality control and on a bike?

 

[Jeff Howe]

Never seen it myself yet. Here's another what if... what if the shock experiences a crappy bleed job AND is slightly low on pressure, like experiencing a small amount of cavatation?? Lets say you have a little more air in the shock than normal, just a little. And your pressure is say..130 psi, from some knucklehead setting his regulator to 150 psi and losing some (which is guaranteed) when he yanks the chuck off.

So, we have some air already present in the shock, and now we have the possibility of cavatation, though slight, creeping in..hows that effect the heat range of the shock?? Naturally with a shock running say 85psi your going to have real noticeable problems in there, but I'm thinking more like on the verge, minor, and the potential exists. So, will a shock run hotter if cavatating? and with a little air in there. Seems to me since it is a extremely rare occurrence, the issue that needs to be solved is keeping the shock from heating so much. I like the Husky finned ressy, I think thats smart move.

 

[shockdoc]

Jer
I'm glad that you were finally able to see what I have been dealing with for approx 2 years. I tried to explain what I had found & rumors that I had heard of why this was happening but seemed no one wanted to listen or believe it. I had other suspension companys telling my customers that I was doing something wrong. Well at 1 point about a year ago I was thinking that myself but since I have been building shocks damn near every day for the last 15 years I just didn't see how it could be anything I was doing.

Well I don't have a lot of time at the moment but if you want to hear all of what I found and went through I will come back & try to write it down. I need more time to hunt & peck that story!!!! LOL


doc

 

[Jeff Howe]

I do, I want to hear it, again. Let me get this straight though, the "spot" where "tightness" is...at the top of the stroke or what? SO then it cannot fully extend?? How low does the rear hang when it seizes up? Half travel?

 

[Blade]

We brought a new tool into work 9 years ago and when we started running it everything was fine for 5-6 hours then the slides would lock up. We tore it apart , nothing broke , no rough spots everything looked fine , everything measured fine. It turned out to be a clearance problem of only a few tenths (.0001) , the tool would cool off enough before we could get it apart that clearances checked fine when we were looking for a problem. In 12 years on this job it os the only one to ever show this.

Different than a shock for sure but strange clearance issues do happen.

 

[Jeff Howe]

Doc, you said at one point you had some guy press the body round. But, I think what Jer is saying is the shock works fine until extreme heat(which we shouldn't get for pete's sake) sets in. I'm gathering he is saying the shock distorts in line with the casting( i think). So, did pressing the shock round make a difference?

I still don't get this...I'm asking around to all KYB equipped guys (that I know that might be able to superheat a shock) about their shock performance.

Clearance issues... I think I can honestly say that the tightest shocks I get are definitely Showa. Is this happening with Showa shocks too?

Now I gotta make a choice...new digital camera or Intercomp Temp Gun?

 

[Jeremy Wilkey]

Shocknut,
I figureded that it is something that is impacted by poor build techinques. And I'd say that when we built the shock "right" it lasted way longer, however it did fail.. But these where 25 min motos. This was not fade, it was sezuire at the bottom of the stroke. If you pusehed it though it was ok.. but it caused several obvious problems..

Regards,
Jer

 

[Jeff Howe]

At the bottom of the stroke? Interesting... Kinda weird how a guy can actually wish for a chance to see somebody's shock mess up, but I want to see it. Maybe I have and don't know it??

 

[Blade]

www.mscdirect.com and www.use-enco.com have Raytek laser temp tools like the Intercomp unit , price depends on options but sometimes have pretty good sales

 

[Blade]

That was easy to spot , hope you didn`t put a lot of effort into it. :)

I didn`t know if the post of KTM talk was true or not , I guess it was. Only 6000 members ??,,,do your advertisers know???

How about a couple tickets to DirtwEAk`02?????

 

[marcusgunby]

Blade im confused what all the smilies are for?

 

[svi]

Guys,
Do you have any idea of what sort of temperatures the shock is getting up to?
Do those shocks have a relatively thin walled body?
Mabe it would help to warm the body to the temperature that is causing the problem then run a hone along it.
Cars in the desert raid races get so hot that the anodising discolours on the resevoirs and some have been known to have the end caps pop out as the resevoir has expanded that much.