Swapping carbs with a 91

fatty_k

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Jul 3, 2001
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Has anyone sawapped carbs from a 91 KDX 200 to a 220? I have a 91 at my dispence for parts and what not, and I have heard you can get more power with the 91's larger carb. I am guessing more top end as it is a lager carb, but I also have a RAD valve, KB30 pipe, turbine core II. What kind of performance gains can I expect and what jetting changes? The 91 is jetted a little on the rich side, and my 220 is pretty much spot on. Will I have to go richer or leaner with the 91 carb on my 220? One more thing, will it just bolt right on to my RAD valve?

Thanks a lot, and I am looking forward to replies.
 

Canadian Dave

Super Power AssClown
Apr 28, 1999
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Been there done that Fatty-K. Yes it will fit right on, the carb bodies are almost identical. Jet the 35mm carb off the 91 the same as you would a KDX200. Given your riding area and conditions I'd give a 152, 42 and stock 220 needle in the second from the top clip position a try. I expect it will be rich but it will get you started.

Just a note: You'll have to use the slide off the 91 carb, the two are different.

Let us know how it worked out for you. You're dad might be interested in trying the 33mm carb off your 220 in his bike as well. Just install it as is with your 220's jetting installed and it should be quite close.

Have fun,

David
 

fatty_k

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Jul 3, 2001
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Thanks Dave, so let me get this straight: use the 91 slide, with my 220's stock needle? Is the stock 91 200 needle richer or leaner than the stock 220 needle?

Again, thanks, I'll give her ago tomrrow and post the results.
 

fatty_k

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Jul 3, 2001
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Well I did the swap and did some jetting on it today. So far I have a 150, 45, clip #2 pos. I think I am going to stick with the stock 33mm 220 carb for now. I cant tell any difference in top end power, but the bike does seem to rev out a lot quicker and feels quicker over all. I tend to ride more in the upper rpm range with the 35mm carb. I dont like the lack of torque with the 35mm carb vs the 33. When I snap it just off idle, the rear wheel just spins uncontrolably instead of wheeling like it usually does with the 33mm carb. There feels like more mid range but it flattens out on top just like it does with the 33mm carb in. I suspect a lean main, but I didnt have a new plug in while doin the plug chops, so it was hard to tell after a WOT plug chop. I got a new plug and will try it out agian tomrrow with a 152 or 155 main. But bottom line is, I dont really like the power delivery of the 35mm carb so I will just go back to the 33. I did keep the jetting specs so I will spend some time with it again when I have more time. Torque over horsepower for me thank you. ;)
 

fatty_k

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Jul 3, 2001
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One more thing, the slides are the same, just different cutaways. The 33mm carb has a 5mm cut away, while the 35mm carb has a 6mm cutaway. But the two slides will fit in either carb.
 

Canadian Dave

Super Power AssClown
Apr 28, 1999
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Your experience with the 35mm carb on your 220 sounds about right to me, a bitless bottom end throttle response/grunt with faster power delivery from mid to top end is what I'd expect to hear.

Are you sure the slides are interchangeable? The 91 slide should be a #6 vs the 98 #5 as you stated but the bottom of the slides should be a different profile on either side of the cut away. The 98 should have a recess cut away from either side of the throttle valve/slide on the bottom that fits over a corresponding raised area on the jet block. The bottom of the 91's slide should be flat on either side of the throttle valves cut away. The slides with fit in either carb but the 91's slide will not fully seal in the 98's carb and will remain open about 1/8 throttle The 98's slide in the 91's carb may cause some problems at lower throttle setting due to the material removed from the bottom the slide? I'd think it would cause some additional turbulence that could possibly interrupt the airflow over the jet block? ?

Recheck the two slides and let us know.

David
 

fishhead

die you sycophant !
LIFETIME SPONSOR
May 22, 2000
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One other thing to consider is the height of the jet nozzle on the '91 carb. It is different than the late carbs and the 91 has a longer needle to compensate You might get better results with the 91 needle and slide combo in the 91 carb on your 220.
 

Canadian Dave

Super Power AssClown
Apr 28, 1999
1,202
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That's true the 91's carb uses a jet nozzle that's almost 2mm lower than the 220's. The 91's stock needle is a R1172N and uses a longer straight section than the 220s R1173L. I'd guess that the R1172N has a L1 around 0.9mm or one clip position longer than the R1173L. The R1172N uses a propriety profile, Keihin doesn't have a conversion for an OEM needle with a L1 measurement of "N" but following Keihin’s profile chart it should be in that neighborhood. By all means play with the stock needle. I'd start out in the mid clip position and take it from there.

You should be able to come up with a combination that fattens up the power on the bottom end to give you more torque in trade of some of the quicker throttle response you noticed with the 35mm carb. If its going flat on top I'd try a 152 main and see if that helps out. Normally flat is associated with a leaner than optimum condition as you know. The 35mm carb will deliver good bottom end grunt and still have a little more on top once you get the jetting sorted out.

David
 

fishhead

die you sycophant !
LIFETIME SPONSOR
May 22, 2000
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Thanks for sharing the dimensional info, Dave.

I've been helping some friends with early kdx's on jetting and we have found the earlier carbs prefer different jet packs than the later models. R1172n is very close or equal to a Kehin BGN. You might be able to richen the 0-1/4 throttle area, if necessary, by using the #5 slide from a 95 on carb to approximate a BGM needle. try a 48p r1172n in the 3rd clip and a 155 or 158 main to start with the 6 slide. A lot of times poor throttle response can be traced to jetting problems. I ran extensive tests on a bored carb with and without a horizontal divider on my 220 and I was able to get accepable results for woods riding with a bored carb and no divider. Power delivery was similar to a 200 with a torque pipe.

This is a mod than has some potential so please keep us advised of your progress.
:aj:
 

fatty_k

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Jul 3, 2001
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Dave, you are right. I did a visual comparison of the two slides and put them in either carb and they fit, so I assumed they were the same :o . I thought that it may have a lean main, and I bought a 152 today but have yet to try it in the 200 carb, but it worked awesome in my 220 today. I dont have much time to experiment with different jetting with work and such, but I will give it another try with a richer main and the 200 slide and needle combo.
 
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