Team Honda--Bad Luck or Bad Karma?

kingriz1 · Jan 9, 2002

Well Nick, it is on.

Personally I hope MC gets it but my money is on RC.

Sincerely,

Riz

Mudboy · Jan 9, 2002

On this topic--I just read an interview in I think it was MXRacer--where RC says all kinds of things like--the Honda is a safer bike---the Honda is way better in the whoops---lots of comments that are now rather ironic after seeing him get thrown and hurt pretty bad. Anyone else see that article?

And as for how Honda's doing so far--yes Laracco looks awesome and I'm sure team Honda likes seeing him there but don't kid yourself about them thinking it will be OK if RC doesn't put out after getting the big $$$. He's there go-to guy.

Finally, I do think MC has lost it--and I've watched him from the beginning. Yes, it was just one race but I think he's mentally down for the count and not going to get back up. I was hoping for more because he's still my favorite rider.

dirt bike dave · Jan 9, 2002

The Honda seemed OK when RC used it to win the US Open in his first ride on red.

Mudboy - Are you trying to say Honda's are unsafe and don't handle the whoops well? Just come out and say it and stop beating around the bush! Let's get you on the record, so we can watch you squirm when Honda wins a bunch of races this year.

Any bike will spit off a rider when the rider makes a mistake. It's not exactly a Honda exclusive.

Yep, RC is Honda's 'go to' guy. He's won 50% of the races he's entered on the red bike. I like LaRocco a bunch, but last year showed RC will beat him 95% of the time.

Senior KX Rider · Jan 9, 2002

On this topic--I just read an interview in I think it was MXRacer--where RC says all kinds of things like--the Honda is a safer bike---the Honda is way better in the whoops---lots of comments that are now rather ironic after seeing him get thrown and hurt pretty bad. Anyone else see that article?

He gets payed well to say all of that. And any issues he has with the bike are surely taken care of.

Mudboy · Jan 9, 2002

I'm saying what I said. It's IRONIC that the little leprechan is touting what a great bike it is, particularly in the whoops, and how "safe" it is, and then in his first SX race (who cares about that tiny "track" in Vegas) he gets bucked worse than I've ever seen him bucked and hurt worse than I've ever seen him hurt. Look up "ironic" or "irony" in a dictionary if you're still confused.

Am I blaming the bike? No. Larocco looked awesome as I stated before (on a CR). As for "I'm sure they have the bike worked out," do you think they have a magic wand or what? It could take several races to get it where he wants it or even all season.

yardpro · Jan 9, 2002

Mudboy & others who blame the bike for his wreck-

have you guys forgotten two years ago when rc entered the 250 class on a kawie and had that horrible endo in the whoops? he was so disoriented that he dove in front of a bike to grab his and got clocked. If i'm not mistaken he had another bad incident in the whoops a few racel later that caused him to withdraw back to the 125 for the next year.
the guy has a riding style that consistantly puts him on the edge. sometimes he goes over that edge.
I regretted his switch to team red because i knew if he blew it it would be blamed on the bike. the same thing happened to suckzuki when mcgrath performed poorly on it. thier sales # tanked after that. that's like saying eming broke both wrists because the kawie was too weak to make the triple. DUH!!!
get a clue

Milquetoast · Jan 9, 2002

Hey, with all that has been posted so far, I just have to say that I think everybody is right and also that everyone is totally full of poo! But if this isn't the most gosh-darn exciting start of the supercross season in memory, then I'm the tooth-fairy! CANT WAIT, CANT WAIT, CANT WAIT until Week 2!!!! Suuuuuuuuuueeeeeeeeeeeeeetttttttttt!!!!!!

wayneo426 · Jan 9, 2002

Give em all a chance!

Just because Honda bought the best, you cant hate them. Lots of professional sports organizations buy their players. Just look at the Yankees. Oh yeah, I forgot, everyone hates them too. ;)
Seriously, you have to give these guys at least 4-5 races just to see how well their riding. It will no doubt NOT be a wash for RC. Just like anyone, it will take some time for him to get FULLY accustomed to the CR. I know hes had plenty of time to prepare on it, but practice isnt the same when you have 20 guys breathing down yer neck, and gunning for numero uno. Besides, if it brings him back to the pack, it will at least make the races that much closer.

RYDMOTO · Jan 9, 2002

I watched RC's crash several times to see if I could figure out what happened.One thing is for sure...he didn't have enough speed to clear the jump he crashed on.I thought maybe his tire broke loose and he lost speed,but that didn't seem to be the case.There were two lines if i am not mistaken and the one he took you had to clear that kicker.He obviosly wasn't going fast enough.My guess is his mind wandered or he forgot which line he had to have enough speed on.The other line he would have had no problem.One thing I can say for sure.....its not the Hondas fault at all.Just look how fast ML can go on his Honda.And one other thing.....Ricky always comes up swinging when he has a bad night....That boy has reserves that he draws on and that fire is fueled by anger.You just watch

nephron · Jan 10, 2002

Okay, back to the real meaning of the frankly misinterpreted post:

1) Team Honda is different than Amsoil &/or any other factory support teams.
2) I dislike Team Honda, primarily because of their shifting, politics, rules (ask McGrath & Lusk--wouldn't even let him have his wife with him for the races last year:silly: ), shoddy treatment of riders & personnel. Also, it's no secret the pressure they put on their riders to perform, which creates a worsening situation.
3) I don't dislike their bikes, which are obviously awesome. I just happen to dislike Team Honda enough (at this point, although I've had a few Honda's in the past & probably will again in the future--AF?:) ) to actually do something about it, ie, not buy their stuff. I guess that's my prerogative. And I also guess it's my prerogative to piss & moan about their behavior. Maybe not. Note that XRP dislikes Team Honda as well, but not enough to stop purchasing their bikes. That's his prerogative, I guess.
4) The main point was that Team Honda did not do as well as their support teams, in which case, the questions following were meant to ask whether or not it was the bike setup or something intrinsic to the teams themselves & their approach to rider/personnel treatment.

How much skin am I taking off your gluteus maximii,golgi apparatii, "kindeys" & structures n.o.s. by making all that known? I thought Rich banned all "Nancies" from the site.:p

XRpredator · Jan 10, 2002

Originally posted by nephron
. . . Note that XRP dislikes Team Honda as well, but not enough to stop purchasing their bikes . . .

Now don't go draggin' me down with your ship, cap'n! :scream: (just kidding!)

I'll admit, I'm not a big fan of Team Honda. Matter of fact, I started liking McGrath more when he jumped ship to the Suzuki. I am a Honda guy, (more an XR guy) though, but that may change. Not only with a different bike, but it seems Honda Corp. is starting to kowtow to the greens. We'll see how things go.

I am a big LaRocco fan, though! Go Factory Connection!

yardpro · Jan 10, 2002

How much skin am I taking off your gluteus maximii,golgi apparatii, "kindeys" & structures n.o.s. by making all that known? I thought Rich

only a thin layer of keratinized epidermis.
and how did you know that my gluteus is maximus?:)

CR Swade · Jan 11, 2002

OK. I've got to dive in with my CR wings a flyin'. Yardpro said it earlier-RC has a tendency to either be completely on the edge and unstoppable or completely over the edge and waddin' it up bigtime. I know the disgruntled greenies out there want to see his soil sample be a product of a "hideous frame/suspension/team van not letting womens folk in with the racers", but it just isn't the case.

Honda breeds and hires winners or tries to -just like any other team. The 80's domination started with great riders and better R&D than anybody else. The closest competition was Kawi. That rivalry still holds true today-and you'll hear plenty of Kawi riders hating RC right now. Funny thing is though, I was/am a McGrath fan and didn't boo him or blame his performance on leaving Honda when he slipped up. Can KX fan say the same thing? Doubt it. They are acting like RC mugged Santa and peed in the punch bowl.
And it is all because he is riding that nasty ol' CR on that mean ol' Team Honda. Yeah right!

As far as team mentality-if you are getting paid 6 or 7 figures to perform, just perform. If your wife is a distraction (some spouses can be detrimental to performance) then he/she needs to be away during work. I don't think Honda is saying "We are not pro-family"-they just want top performance. And c'mon we all have pretty much seen that both Lusk and Windahm can get a little scooters in the noggin', regardless of what team they are on.

I am rootin for a great season. It should include RC, MC, LaRocket, some up-and-comers, maybe an appearance by Bradshaw; anybody but Vullimen (and it's not because he's on a Yammie either):p

nephron · Jan 11, 2002

I tried to do the research yesterday, regarding the intent of the original question , and couldn't come up with an answer. ie, it seems I read somewhere that TEAM HONDA's motors are designed by a 3-letter designation R&D program somewhere in Europe (& I'm not meaning HRC, or am I?)--this is probably WRONG, but I'm used to that around here (especially my WRONG opinions & misconceptions about Team Honda :D ).

So, how similar are all the "Red Rider"'s bikes? How much variance occurs in the support setting (a la Factory Connection)?

Sincerely, the KING of desquamation.:)

MX-727 · Jan 11, 2002

My take on RC is this: He never had a loyal fan base. The folks that cheered for him were actually Kawi fans that were rooting for anyone to win on green. When he left Kawi, he took no fan support with him. Until he wins and wins very consistently, he won't gain the Honda fans, and even then they will only root for him because he rides red. It probably isn't fair, but his personality is not a leadership type that engenders a loyal following.

MC, LaRocket, Pastrana, Ferry and a few others are riders whose fans cheer for them as individuals, regardless of brand identification.

mxracer724 · Jan 11, 2002

My take on RC is this: He never had a loyal fan base. The folks that cheered for him were actually Kawi fans that were rooting for anyone to win on green. When he left Kawi, he took no fan support with him. Until he wins and wins very consistently, he won't gain the Honda fans, and even then they will only root for him because he rides red. It probably isn't fair, but his personality is not a leadership type that engenders a loyal following.

MC, LaRocket, Pastrana, Ferry and a few others are riders whose fans cheer for them as individuals, regardless of brand identification.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that KX - 727, although I still like watching him ride even though I don't like his personality.

yardpro · Jan 11, 2002

KX - 727
i agree with you as well. I just don't think it's fair to blame his soil sample on the bike. At thier level of competition the bikes are all pretty equal. they adjust everything to suit the rider.

Buzz Bomb · Jan 13, 2002

I'm going to go against the flow here, but oh well. What exactly is it that people don't like about Carmichael's personality? I know he doesn't have a ton to say after the races besides "The bike was running good, I felt great, yada yada yada," but that's what most of the riders say, and when you think about it, what really is there to say? There's not a whole lot you can say about how you won a race. Just because Carmichael isn't as outgoing as Pastranaor some others doesn't make his personality bad. 90% ofall MX fans give him nothing but crap for switching to Honda. It's HIS choice, not the fans! Who cares what bike he rides? He's not racing to make fans happy. No one knows why he did it, yet they still bug him about being disloyal to Kawasaki despite the fact that half the riders in the friggen circuit switched teams this year! Team Honda is virtually a new team. And all this talk about how Honda's bikes are stiff, don't work right, or whatever is a bunch of BS. People are basing this on ONE race! Just because someone crashes doesn't mean the bike has something wrong with it! Overall, I think it's a bunch of crap that people dis Carmichael when he's done nothing to harm anyone.

yardpro · Jan 13, 2002

Buzz Bomb
you obviously haven's seen his interviews from a couple of years ago. Although he is getting better, we was very snotty. I remeber in one outdoor reae he was in the lead, with someone on his heels. They had watered the track between motos. He fell in a turn and was passed. when he was interviewed about his second place finish he said that he was faster than anybody out there, and that he could beat any of those guys, but they overwatered the track so he fell. he didn't congradulate the other rider on a good ride, or being in a good position to capitalize on his mistake, etc. That's the charmichael everyone is bashing.

Buzz Bomb · Jan 13, 2002

I didn't know of that incident, but I don't think that's a reason to hate him. When you're angry you say things you wouldn't normally say.

dejacky · Jan 13, 2002

i'm not a Carmicael fan either. In his interviews he seems quite arrogant saying how he set the standards, he's the best, blah blah blah. go mcgrath, kevin windham, and pastrana!

-dejacky

yardpro · Jan 13, 2002

he used to consistently make similar comments. How long have you followed his career? That is poor sportsmanship. If you cannot controil your language for a thirty second intervew, and spout things like that often, then don't be suprised when you geet booed at an event like the vegas open. Pastrana has been sent to Public relation classes by suzuki every year since he was eight years old. They realize that having a charismatic rider that everyone likes is as good if not better than having an unliked champ that the public doesn't really like.

theMotoMan · Jan 13, 2002

I agree with statement that McGrath is trying too hard. He is psych'd out and is going to have to get a grip. I really don't care at this point. When he signed up Bud Light as a sponsor, it told me he really is just after the money. I don't think he needs the money and he definitely doesn't need to extole the virtues of beer to the up and coming kids in motocross. Maybe that's it! He has to start endorsing the product before each and every moto!

yardpro · Jan 13, 2002

I don't think he needs the money and he definitely doesn't need to extole the virtues of beer to the up and coming kids in motocross. Maybe that's it! He has to start endorsing the product before each and every moto!

Why is it wrong for him and not wrong for nascar drivers. To use the same argument for them would be to say that they are promoting drinking and driving. If you were offered a raise at work would you turn it down?
This is the riders job. MC had a problem with sponsors being late in signing on. I'm sure he got nervous and took whatever $ he could get. If he's planning to retire after this year, wouldn't it be prudent to line the retirement fund as well as possible?

( I don't really care for MC and hate NASCAR)

I just get tired of people not realizing that, yes the pro's love what they do, but they don't do it for love, they do it for the money. This is thier job, and they are not riding for any moral agenda, they ride for the money. I'm sure they love riding, but the work and stress hthat is present at thier level makes it not quite as much fun, it makes it work.
All professional athelets deal with this.

angry jim · Jan 13, 2002

I used to hate watching RC spank everyone when he rode 125's. It sure seemed like he had more fans then. Last year when he started smoking Jeremy every week, people started to root against him. I think the McGrath apologists are fueling the bad press RC gets.

The ESPN coverage of the Anaheim race was a joke. Thanks for showing Jeremy riding around in 13th place for 2 laps while we could have been watching LaRocco charge back up to second. They also killed about 10 minutes on interviewing RC and MC. They didn't pay any attention to the other riders out there. I didn't see any footage of the guys who finished 3rd through 10th place.

This year I am more inclined to pull for RC than before. He'll never be my favorite, but he took down MC and when there is a race in SoCal he will get booed. In my opinion, MC has made far more excuses about losing than RC. They both better quit worrying about eachother and start paying attention to the guys in front of them.

Team Honda--Bad Luck or Bad Karma?

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