That old race gas tune...

canyncarvr · Jul 6, 2004

If you haven't tried some, give it a go.

Specifically Trick 114.

BTW, a distillation curve that gets you a 90% point @ 232º.

Start (imo..a suggestion) with a 20% mix (one gallon Trick to four gallons of pump fuel) and 'spearmint from there.

It's a lot of fun!!

xtremekdx · Jul 6, 2004

race gas

a guy at work advised me, "don't waist your money on race gas unless you have a high compression engine." is this true? i noticed no difference with trick.

YZ165 · Jul 6, 2004

The smell alone is worth the money! :aj:

Wolf · Jul 7, 2004

I'm gonna try it eventually. My 225 kit really doesn't need it (no pinging problems), but I'd like to see what it does.

skipro3 · Jul 7, 2004

Hey CC,
How did you settle on the 4 to 1 mix? Did you try it straight? Did it affect your jetting?
Race fuel is a interesting subject. There is alot more to it than just octane numbers. Most people don't realize it. While octane numbers are important, most tend to forget, or not even be aware of the distillation curve of the fuel they use. In my opinion, the better the curve , the better the fuel. the 10%, 90% and end point are very important. If your bike is jetted correctly for the fuel you are using, the lower the 10% number, the better throttle response. The closer the 90% number and end-point the more complete burn and less SPOOGE!
Here are a few numbers to contemplate:
- there is a 20 degree(F) difference between the 90% evaporization point and the end point with C12 (from 218 to 240 degrees)
- there is a 59 degree(F) difference between the 90% evaporization point and the end point with Trick 114 (232 to 291 degrees)
Notice the end point temp compairison as well: 51 degrees difference!

I can't help but laugh everytime I see some guy pull up to the pumps with a totally tricked out bike in his truck only to fill up his gans cans with some 10% alcohol, EPA mandated pump swill.

YEAH, you guys are right, there are NO advantages to running race gas in a stocker L O L
(Plagiarized from several sources)

canyncarvr · Jul 7, 2004

If you notice no difference with <whatever> then don't bother with it.

My bike is FRP ported and RB head modified.

High compression? Well, higher compression anyway.

re: '..more to it than just octane numbers.'

Yeah. The octane number probably matters about diddle...the distillation curve is a big deal.

I would have tired C12 if it was available. I tried Trick because I can get it just down the street and I know of others that have used it and like it...and I got a good rec on it from a machinist/tuner that I trust explicitly.

It worked. Better than any other 'exotic' fuel? I have no idea...I haven't tried the others.

I haven't 'settled' on 4:1. It's just where I started. I will be trying other ratios to see where/if response/performance falls off. I have not tried it straight.

re: did it effect jetting.

My bike wasn't jetted properly to start with. That was part of why I wanted to try some other fuel. Since the bike was ported it hasn't been running nearly as well as it was before it was ported. I understood this to be a jetting issue (maybe more on that in a different thread), but haven't been riding (until this past weekend) enough to get it sorted out.

I plan on continuing to use the Trick until I get the jetting back on track. I'll try pump-swill after that to see what the differences are. My jetting changes this weekend were based on 10 and 20% Trick mixes.

It's surprising how it all turned out.

Hey!! Alcohol in fuel is a good thing!

(That's a joke, plagiarized from nowhere! ;) )

Skipro: 240º is pretty low. I've not used/tried C12, but are there no vapor-locking problems with an end point that low? ..and I think there is some kinda typo in your C12 numbers? I find C12 to be:
90% 228º
endpoint 240º
..for a difference of 12º

Trick 114:
90% 232º
endpoint 291º
..for a difference of 59º (as you say).

Not arguing about anything. The point you made is clear and holds still..just a slight correction to your numbers (I think).

Cheers!

skipro3 · Jul 7, 2004

Hey CC:
I got my #'s for VP C-12 from here:
http://www.hardcore50.com/technical_articles/vp_racing_fuel_specifications.htm
and my #'s for Trick 114 from here:
http://www.trickgas.com/trick.htm
Let me know where you got the VP C-12 info you found. There may be a typo on the site I was using.
If your source is correct then it's no wonder I'm not spooging. I've burned through 5 gallons of premix and after wiping the SA's hole with a tissue and my nose with a tissue (a second, clean one of course) found the tissue used on my nose to have more "spooge" than the one used for the SA. (Now there's a scientific measurement!!!!)

I'm not sure of where a vapor lock would occur on a dirtbike, I've not had any problems. I would think a vapor lock could cause a lean seize if it existed.
I tried some pump gas recently just to see what the bike would say about it. It ran lean. (Note to self: Don't grab the buddies gas can if I run out without first doing a re-jet.)

I would use Trick 114 if I had started down the jetting road with that on hand. It's very easy to find here in California: Many Union 76 stations carry it and usually advertize with a large banner out front. Next time I get the itch to tinker, I plan on trying out the Mobil 2-stroke oil and Trick 114.
Let us know of any updates with the fuel testing.

canyncarvr · Jul 7, 2004

God help me....please!

My single brain cell is damaged and dying...or something.

My Vp Race fuel info came from the same link you listed (Doesn't everyone use Google?). I still have the actual piece of paper that I wrote '90%-228' on. I checked it after I wrote it, too! Aha...but now I don't find a 228 on the entire page!

..but 218 is easy to find!

Crimently. You are correct. :bang:

...still isn't a 20º diff....;)

Can I keep that as a shred of something correct? ;)

Hey! I have an answer to every question, 'eh!!

Don't know that vaporlock is ever a dirtbike problem. It's not like a big 4BBL sitting on top of a stove (V-8) with a lid on top (hood). Any fuel vaporizing when it's not supposed to would be some sorta problem I suppose.

skipro3 · Jul 7, 2004

Yup, google. And did you get in on it's IPO? Me neither.

My sig line was not intended for you, it was intended to trap the unwary. oops!!

My wife always insinuates I'm stupid. Then I do my best "Homer Simpson hurt feelings whine" and she treats me to a bowl of ice cream. Yea!! (Could you get me the chocolate syrup while your'e up, honey?) Oww!!! That hurt. Good thing the syrup is in a plasic container.

Rich Rohrich · Jul 7, 2004

C12 numbers direct from VP courtesy of Dr. Dave Redzus formerly of Phillips and know head honcho at FirePower fuels

10% = 131.0 F
50% = 194.0 F
90% = 228.0 F
End Point = 233.3 F

As a quick aside, Trick fuels are blended by Phillips and you'll see that Trick 114 is very close in spec to Phillips B32 aka TT111. Coincidence? I don't think so. ;)

skipro3 · Jul 7, 2004

Thanks Rich.
I knew I read somewhere here on DRN that there was only a 5 F difference between the 90% and end point on C12 but could not find the fact on line as demonstrated by the link I posted.

canyncarvr · Jul 8, 2004

Sheesh. You mean you can't trust what you read on the web? I am aghast!!

And the first numbers even came from VPFuels......

BTW is this 'SA hole' clean enough to wipe your nose on?

That old race gas tune...

canyncarvr

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YZ165

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That old race gas tune...

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