That's it. Brown is officially off my "A" list...

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moto1313

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Naturally

Well of course Fonzie was in front of Brown, that's is why Brown had to get by. Had Fonzie had the brains to stay behind Brown, he would not have fallen. The 125 class is like a demo derby. The bikes are not like 250's, they have to pass when they feel they can as they don't have the power to just fly by on sheer HP. You have to bump more in this class and ride more agressively. That is all Brown does.
 

IDkTm

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I agree with you moto1313, Brown should have gotten our 125 MX des Nations spot. He has raced in Europe so he'll have much better knowledge of the track than TP. That is if TP's brain isn't fully scrambled and cooked by then.
 

XRpredator

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I'm not defending anybody, but . . .

Bob Hannah said:"What do I think about other racers? On the track, I hate 'em. Off the track, I just plain don't like 'em. You can't be friends with a guy you might have to knock off the track to pass. And if I'm behind, I'm gonna pass"
I realize Mike Brown is no Bob Hannah, but doesn't it seem that our racers are getting too "nicey-nice?"

I remember the Hannah-Howerton battles in the days of yore. You usually hated one of 'em and loved the other, and it gave everyone something to talk about. Nowadays, there is very little rubbing going on, and nobody gets "parked" hardly at all any more.

Why don't we just give 'em all skirts and wigs. And don't forget the post-race tea parties.:p

Just my 2 cents.:)
 

WoodsRider

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Re: I'm not defending anybody, but . . .

Originally posted by XRpredator
Why don't we just give 'em all skirts and wigs. And don't forget the post-race tea parties.:p

Then it would be just like NASCAR. :p

Seriously though, Brown is an aggressive rider. He's paid to go out and race and that's exactly what he's doing. Personally that's the kind of racing I enjoy watching. Sure the jumping part is cool and watching the way your favorite rider cuts a smooth turn is pretty neat, but there better be some good bar-banging action going on too. Besides, who wants to be roosted by a four-stroke for 30 minutes? Not me! :scream:
 

Okiewan

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I agree with you moto1313, Brown should have gotten our 125 MX des Nations spot

No, that spot should go to the best 125 rider we have, which, it did. NOT to a career 125'er.

On the other hand...

Just think how many of those furiners that hillbilly could take out!! Maybe even end some off their careers! With all the talk of the rest of the world bailing on the GP's and coming to the States next year... this could be a good thing!
 

XRpredator

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Originally posted by Okiewan
the rest of the world bailing on the GP's and coming to the States next year... this could be a good thing!
Actually, I agree that the rest of the world coming here to compete is a good thing, but that's a topic for another thread (and probably an interesting one at that!)

I also agree that in the long run, Travis is the man in the 125 class. But, if he can't compete due to health problems (which could be very likely), Brownie would be a good choice as replacement.

I just wish someone would beat the Leprechaun!
 

Max Factor

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Re: Naturally

Originally posted by moto1313
Had Fonzie had the brains to stay behind Brown, he would not have fallen. The 125 class is like a demo derby.
What an inciteful observation :scream: You're joking of course.
I just watched the incident for the first time. Forget who the riders were, what bike they ride, what sort of style they use, everything. That was a DIRTY, DELIBERATE, DANGEROUS move, that's not in the spirit of sportsmanship or racing.
Brown will get what's coming. It wont be from Fonz, he doesn't seem to play that game, he just races. That's why obviously why Brown's pushing him around, he knows he wont get it back the very next time they line up.
I bet Brown can be seen picking on a geek with glasses with 7 of his mates in the parking lot after the race....yep........tough man that Brown.
 

IDkTm

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I agree with TP being a good choice for the MX des Nations, but I also think that he is a huge risk as well. I would say he'll either fly during the race or crash his brains out and put us in a huge hole that Ryno and RC won't be able to dig us out of. I see Brown as being more consistent, plus better suited to a Euro track with his more flowing style that he learned in Europe. Aside from Hnagtown Brown has been very consistent and blazing fast on many occasions. A nice guy? Maybe not, but I have to think that if I was in his position and had his ability anyone in front of me would be a big bullseye. He rides with intensity and is out there to win, not make friends. As far as Leprecauhn Ricky, I like the kid, he's a throwback to the old days of riding hard and training hard. I bet you'll like him more next year XRP when he's riding red.
 

XRpredator

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Originally posted by IDkTm
. . . As far as Leprecauhn Ricky, I like the kid, he's a throwback to the old days of riding hard and training hard. I bet you'll like him more next year XRP when he's riding red.
No, even though I ride a Honda, I loathe Team Honda. Too corporate. I do dig LaRocco's Team AmsOil, though.
 

KXKen

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Originally posted by Okiewan
Did you watch Red Bud? In my book Tortelli and Windham both beat him. Too bad their bikes returned the favor.

Ricky had trouble at Red Bud last year to. For some reason it's not a track he does very well at.
 

moto1313

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Fonzie doesn't play that game?

Tell that to Kelly Smith a couple years ago. Last lap in a SX, three turns to go and gets taken out by Fonzie over a huge double. That could have been career ending. From that moment on I could not stand Fonzie. Personally, I hope Brown parks the Fonz in every race.:p
 

Natester

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Unfortunately, your attempt to intellectually entlighten the rest of us has failed again. Fonzie's move on Kelly Smith was a racing accident, Brown's takeout was part of a pattern. :scream: I think you're taking the move on Smith a lot harder than Kelly is. That can't be a healthy thing.:eek:
 

moto1313

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Twisted?

First of all, in this post I am in no way trying to attempt to enlighten anyone. You all have your opinions, some good, some not. The 250f is a faster bike than practically all the 125's. Brown's pass, while it can be seen as rough, was about the only way to pass Fonzie. This sport of MX is rough and that is exactly how Brown rides. Did you ever see Hannah ride in the day? I bet you would have hated him back then. Now he is a God to most MX people. As far as being juvenile, well I don't think so. I like Brown's style and feel he is about the best we have in the 125's. Is he a smooth rider? Not a chance. Is he faster than 99% of the others out there? Yes. I am sick and tired of seeing the Nationals look like a parade. Brown mixes it up, passes people and makes watching a race fun. These are the best riders in the world. I watch them so I can see hard riding and what can actually be done on a MX bike. If I wanted to see a bunch of ametures race, I could go to any local race USA. :think
 

Natester

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Whew. Thanks for not trying to attempt to endeavor to enlighten anyone. Funny how knocking down Fonseca is "about the only way to pass" him. If Brown is the premier rider in the class, how come he has trouble getting around those guys on the 250F, yet Pastrana has no problem at all on an underpowered bike? Please turn your intellectual beacon of light my way and explain that to me.:p :p
 

SATxMotoX

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Re: Twisted?

Originally posted by moto1313
The 250f is a faster bike than practically all the 125's.
Then why isn't the 250f at the top of the podium in EVERY race and EVERY moto? With all the monies and technology that the National level pro's have in their bikes, all bike's are just about equal. Sure, every manufacturer is looking for that one competitive edge, and if it helps sell the bikes on Monday, then great. But the fact is that most bikes at that level are on equal ground...it's the RIDERS on those bikes that put them on the podium.

Originally posted by moto1313
Is he faster than 99% of the others out there? Yes.
From what I've seen, the pro starting gates are made up of about 10-12 guys that can usually contend for a moto win. Usually there are only about 1/2 that in the running for a title. The remaining 28-30 riders are privateers that are trying to get that full factory ride and are usually in the group referred to as "lap riders". (Now that's not to say they aren't daggone good...they are). Last I saw Brown had 1 overall win and I'm not sure how many moto wins. In my book, that doesn't put him in the top 99% of the faster riders.

Brown's a good rider. He's a fast rider. That was never an issue here. What was an issue was his aggressivness in that turn that wiped Fonzie out. If you slow it down and watch the tape there's a shot that shows from behind them coming down that hill. Fonzie went wide and Brown went inside. Brown cut too close inside Fonzie, hit the gas, and his rear wheel slammed into the entire front of Fonzie's bike (actually hit behind the front wheel toward the radiator). That completely washed out Fonzie's front and took him down.

You are correct that these guys are the best riders in the world and that the competitiveness of their racing is a big reason why so many people enjoy watching the sport. However, I dare say save for a few of you out there, most of us want to watch the comptetitive racing stay CLEAN.

If that were to happen at a local race I'd bet that the person who was taken out would be paying a visit to the offending rider's pits to let him know how he feels about it.

Chris
 

Okiewan

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If I wanted to see a bunch of ametures race, I could go to any local race USA

For the style of riding you seem to prefer, that may be the best place to see it. Just watch the typical C class race, you'll see people running into each other, landing on each other and getting hurt all over the place. Whoohoo! Exciting!

Block passing, brake checking, taking a line, rubbing is all fine as far as I'm concerned... T-BONES, slamming and parking people in the bleachers is not sportsmanship... if you can't get around someone with a "clean by MX standards" pass, you must not be fast enough or controlled enough. Resorting to taking someone out because you can't get around them? You have some weak excuses for Brown. It may be that he needs them.

As far as the 250F... funny that Pastrana, who carries a good 30 lbs or so on the typical 125'er, on what may be the slowest ride out there is leading the points.

All the pro's have taken someone out at one point or another... it happens, but when I see someone do it in EVERY RACE THEY ENTER, there is a problem. What happens if he really hurts someone? Think the AMA or the other riders will stand for it? What he does is not "mixing it up and passing people" .
 

moto1313

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Oct 9, 2000
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My last comment

This is Brown's first year back on the National scene. Maybe he is a little rough around the edges and he may not be quite used to the other competitors riding styles and what to expect from them (hell I don't know). All that I can tell from watching him is that when he is racing, he is moving toward the front. He is not content to ride around like some sally and accept 4th or 8th place. He goes as fast as he can for two motos and he is great to watch. He is not pretty or well spoken. IMO however, if all the riders rode like this, the Nationals would replace baseball as Americas pass time.;)
 

KXKen

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Re: My last comment

Originally posted by moto1313
he is great to watch.

I have to agree with that. I was at Red Bud and I think I watched Brown more in the second moto (not first) than I did any other 125 rider.
 

KXKen

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I didn't even know that he had a reputation of doing that kind of thing (bumping people off). I was just checking out his aggressive riding style. It impressed the heck out of me. Now that I've read all of these replies I'll be looking for that when I watch Unadilla. Does anybody know if Brown has made any public comments about that Red Bud incident?

Is it just me or does anybody else notice that some of the people that where complaining about riders not being aggessive enough a couple of years ago are know saying that Ricky is "lucky" or "riding on the edge" (like it's a bad thing or something) or Brown is a "dirty rider". Bob H can make comments about knocking people off the track and that's suppose to be cool but Brown does it and it's not?

I'm not trying to say that what Brown did at Red Bud was OK. Maybe I'm just in the mood to stir up trouble today.
 

TwinSpar

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Aug 18, 1999
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I've been very busy this year and have yet to catch or record a national on TV. I'm missing so much. :(

Any pictures on the WWW that show the Parking Attendant in action?
 
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