woodsy said:Don,, then whats the point in addressing trail loss issues by writing to our representitives when asked to?? One persons voice does make a difference.. More then you can imagine!!!
As if reading the flood of GLDS/CCC emails
If someone can be charged for manslaughter for a collision where they were not at fault...we have bigger problems than helmet laws.2TrakR said:Well, to play the emotional game vs personal freedom...
How 'bout when your daughter, driving her car and not being at fault, collides with a helmetless biker. Said biker is killed on the scene purely due to head injuries that would have clearly been preventable if he had a helmet on.
Does the $100 waiver also waive the involuntary manslaughter charge for her?
Is his family prevented from suing her for [whatever is the current trend]?
Perhaps the above scenario is too far fetched, I don't know the statistics. It would seem other States who already have no-helmet laws would have data on this.
2TrakR said:Gee, what could THAT be about?
Nah, no need. Won't be any more meetings.I guess I"m going to have to sit in at a meeting.
IMO this is the best statement on this post.TCTrailrider said:I would never consider riding without a helmet, but don't have a problem if others chose to do so. Its a personal choice that will not cause injury to the innocent.
I support the law requiring protective eyewear. A bug in your eye at 55mph may cause damage to others. I support required use of seatbelts. Taking evasive action to avoid a collision requires control of the vehicle. You can't control it if your not behing the wheel and a seat belt will heep you there. Requiring others to obey these laws keeps me and others safer.
I don't see how lack of a helmet could cause or contribute to an accident. Sure it may increase medical costs but so do alot of things. Smoking, drinking, over weight, lack of excersise and on and on. Govenmment can't require free people to live perfectly healthy lives.
I blew out my knee last year on the dirtbike. Cost my insurance company about $10,000. Can't take that privelage away because it may increase costs. I now won't ride without knee braces but I would not support a law requiring them. Its a personal choice.
110 temp in Michigan????Boy that's a sturdy leg to stand on! And you call me ^^^WERD^^^ :)woodsy said:^^WERD^^
Yzmans statement about needing to go for coffee runs a close second though :)
Badgerman I couldnt disagree more.. I think there are situations where helmets are acutally a detremint.. Have you ever ridden in temps over 110 degrees?? Your brain cannot release heat and the result is loss of congnitive ability..
woodsy said:GOOD NIGHT I MISS MY COLLEGE DEBATE CLASSES.... ;)
BadgerMan said:I'll bet they miss you too....... ;)
The only unanswered question, in my mind, is whether we should try to "legislate common sense". QUOTE]
Now there's a thought, our legislatures, legislating something they know nothing about. :whoa:
tdunn976 said:BadgerMan said:I'll bet they miss you too....... ;)
The only unanswered question, in my mind, is whether we should try to "legislate common sense". QUOTE]
Now there's a thought, our legislatures, legislating something they know nothing about. :whoa:
Sounds like S.O.P. to me.
tdunn976 said:Now there's a thought, our legislatures, legislating something they know nothing about. :whoa:
It puzzles my brain that alcohol and tobacco are legal, yet marijuana is illegal... :think:
And bicyclists that ride on the white line or edge of roads at 15-20mph with cars and trucks going 40-50mph right along side them... They belong in the same category as helmet-less riders... :coocoo:
woodsyHave you ever ridden in temps over 110 degrees?? Your brain cannot release heat and the result is loss of congnitive ability.. QUOTE said:Actually Woodsy I have ridden in temps 100 to 105 degrees on multiple occasions (South Dakota, Kansas, Nebraska, Southern Wyoming) dont think I hit 110, but whats 5 degrees? - from that I learned the effects of dehydration. Unprotected skin, (including the head) exposed to 60 plus MPH winds dehydrates a body quicker than one totally covered up. Dehydration is a larger cause of loss of cognitive ability. Loss of cognitive ability impacts decision making, and ability to ride. I learned to keep my hide and head, covered...and to take steps to cool down. Soaking a helmet liner and jacket, packing pockets with ice etc..and you can actually be to cool (for a while) on a 110 degree day.
I have also logged some 900 mile days (never quite made it to a 1000 miler..but got close), and many many 800 plus mile days. I learned from this, the impact of "aural fatigue" - the constant wind noise etc. even in a top shelf (Arai) helmet, causes this. Another clear cause of fatigue on the road, and decreased cognitive ability. I learned to ride with ear plugs in anytime I rode more than 30 minutes. I quickly found a dramatic reduction in fatigue, and my ability to remain alert and attentive on the road. With no helmet...somewhere I have a copy of a test done in I think in Cycle Magazine on sound levels...dont recall the specifics...but no helmet, dramatically more noise (DUH)...(oh...add in the loud pipes on top of the wind noise!)
I have also had 3 on pavement accidents. 1 of which, a helmet saved my life, no ifs, no ands, no butts (try getting hit broadside and riding the remainder of the crash out on the hood of the car someday..fun stuff). Another of which a helmet certainly elminated injury..without it, veggie time would of been the result. The third incident, helmet would not of been a factor, but a full road suit (Aerostich) saved my hide from a LOT of road rash. (that same Aerostich is what i wore in 100 degree temps BTW). The fact that helmet saved my life and or minimized injury is not vague theory I read about somewhere...it is a reality that I experienced. (BTW, my insurance company bought me a new helmet each time)
Oh..this crap about riding and crashing without a helmet..affects no one else, therefore it should be OK? How about this...how many of you have called your wife and had a conversation like this "Honey, I am at the hospital...no I am OK, just a precaution...well, the bike is totalled...I am OK really - just a few bruises" Then go show your wife (with your young childern standing behind her watching) your smashed up helmet. Then observe the impact on others around you...and that is WITH a helmet in use. Once you do that...then tell me your choice to ride without a helmet affects no one but yourself. SO...maybe if you are a TOTAL loner, no friends, no family, no job counting on you, NO connections to anyone or anything...maybe maybe you can say no one else is impacted.
Along the way in these various posts the word "safe" came up. Look up the word "safe" in the dictionary. It will say something to the effect of "with an absence of risk". Do you think you can EVER ride a motorcycle with an absence of risk? NO (for those of you who have taken an MSF class...yep...that is straight out of the course materials) So all you can do is MINIMIZE risk. At a minimum, a helmet is a HUGE step towards minimizing risk.
Bottom line is...I feel SOOOOO strongly about helmet use, I have a hard time separating USE from LAW. Yes, I like freedom...I exercise mine everyday... but a civil society often takes steps to protect members of society from making bad choices - countless examples can be made of that. Do I LIKE the idea of the goverment telling me what to do? NO, BUT when I acknowledge they are legislating something that is (to me) simply what everyone should do anyhow...
I said it before, and I will say it again... I respect your right to choose to wear (or not wear) a helmet, however if you choose to not wear one, I do not respect the choice you have made.
You do not think riding a dirt bike is an unnecessary risk :coocoo:BadgerMan said:I'll bet they miss you too....... ;)
I think that we have responsibilities (to our oved ones) to avoid taking unnecessary risks. If you are no longer around due to your risk taking, who is gonna be hurt and what is the cost to our families, friends, and society?
joey450 said:You do not think riding a dirt bike is an unnecessary risk :coocoo:
I agree, but they probably think the same about you! A car can come over a few feet to the right and take out a bicycle, but it can also come over a few feet to the left and smack you head on.Smit-Dog said:And bicyclists that ride on the white line or edge of roads at 15-20mph with cars and trucks going 40-50mph right along side them... They belong in the same category as helmet-less riders... :coocoo:
You do not think riding a dirt bike is an unnecessary risk
hopefully you know him well enough to call him coocoo so no one gets offended
Oh..this crap about riding and crashing without a helmet..affects no one else, therefore it should be OK? How about this...how many of you have called your wife and had a conversation like this "Honey, I am at the hospital...no I am OK, just a precaution...well, the bike is totalled...I am OK really - just a few bruises" Then go show your wife (with your young childern standing behind her watching) your smashed up helmet. Then observe the impact on others around you...and that is WITH a helmet in use. Once you do that...then tell me your choice to ride without a helmet affects no one but yourself. SO...maybe if you are a TOTAL loner, no friends, no family, no job counting on you, NO connections to anyone or anything...maybe maybe you can say no one else is impacted.
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