This is what we are up against

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#2
It always has to come to that. I just CANT see what kind of terrible damage that atv's and dirtbikes cause. Its a money/power trip if you ask me.
 

Tony Eeds

Godspeed Tony.
N. Texas SP
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#3
YZ/250 said:
It always has to come to that. I just CANT see what kind of terrible damage that atv's and dirtbikes cause. Its a money/power trip if you ask me.
It is a progressive thing.

Jeeps are first to go
The Snowmobiles
Then ATVs and Dirtbikes
Then Mountain Bikes
Then Horses and finally
Hikers

The Eco Folks only have one agenda, getting all traffic out of any area "they" deem sensitive.

I received an email today from the IMBA asking for assistance in keeping the CDT open to mountain bikes.

Someday all the groups in the target field, but on the edge, are going to get it. When, I don't know, but they will. Instead of aligning with the SC against us, they should be working with us to keep access open and create user specific trail systems.

*shrug*
 
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#4
""they simply want to eliminate motor recreation on public lands."

As they should. my tax dollars make a part of it my land, I have a right to expect it to be protected for future generations.

"Coalition members deny they are just out to eliminate motorized vehicle use, but say they want the ORV problem brought under control."

Chickens, the spineless denial is what contributes to the difficulty achieving your goal, you are seen as weak and half-hearted.

If we claim to believe in the Bible, it says that
our original job was to "take care of the garden".

Just because value judgment became the "first sin" that does not mean we are absolved from our responsibilities."

i cant believe people are so stupid/over zealous
 
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#5
Pretty simple. Tack $100 onto every new bike or ATV towards PURCHASING new land designated for off road.

And one stream in one part of the country does not worry me. It's called shore up the trail-not take everyone off.
 
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#6
Chris in Denver said:
Pretty simple. Tack $100 onto every new bike or ATV towards PURCHASING new land designated for off road.
QUOTE]


WOW! Great idea Chris. :whoa:

We could name the program something with an enviro catch to it like maybe, Green Sticker Fund. We could have the DMV collect the money from everyone when they register their bikes and take that money and use it to locate land and build and maintain off road parks.

I don't think it will work though.

Sooner or later the enviromentelists will worm their way into the green sticker fund and start to control where the money is spent. They will take the money that is supposed to go for new ohv parks and buy big fancy pick-up trucks and toy-box trailers and a few quads and start to pay police officers to go out and keep those nasty off roaders from going on public land. They will use the funds to buy land around the offroad parks to create buffer zones and will hire a whole gaggle of people to run the offices. They will hire like-minded people that will vote the way they want them to vote on these issues and force the people that oppose them out.

Soon the green sticker fund will become the red sticker fund and we will only be able to ride in the off road parks during certain parts of the year. Many of these parks will be closed down or will go into a state of dis-repair due to the money being spent on other things than the parks.

Many of us will have to spend even more of our money and license our dirt bikes for the street, just so we can still ride. We will be required to still pay for the green sticker fund when we register our bikes and we will also have to pay for the license plate and now, insurance. This will be called, 'Dual registration'. We will also have to spend even more money to hire attorneys and sue to get the off road money to be used for what it was intended for.

Many riders will simply give up and start riding where ever they want. They will start riding places they are not supposed to because there won't be any legal places to ride. The opposition will then say, look what those horrible off roaders are doing to the enviroment.

Many of the riding areas will be shut down and in many counties it will be illegal to ride on your own private property. A lot of people will go to county and city meetings to fight this but, most of us won't We will sit at our computers and tell jokes to one another and suggest ways to fight against this but won't actually take the time to attend these meetings and speak against the opposition or speak up for our rights. The opposition will show up at the meetings and make us look like fools. One of us will stand up and try to explain how this is a good sport that keeps familys together and helps us keep our kids on the straight and narrow path. Then four or five of the opposition will stand up and show a video of some jerk on a un-muffled quad riding back and forth in front of their house in an effort to simply annoy them. And we will stand there looking like idiots. :think:

Don't ask me how I know this stuff. :|

Sarcastic mode OFF. :ugg:

Tony you are right. We ARE our own worst enemys.
 

Tony Eeds

Godspeed Tony.
N. Texas SP
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#7
Ol'89r said:
Chris in Denver said:
Pretty simple. Tack $100 onto every new bike or ATV towards PURCHASING new land designated for off road.

WOW! Great idea Chris. :whoa:

We could name the program something with an enviro catch to it like maybe, Green Sticker Fund. We could have the DMV collect the money from everyone when they register their bikes and take that money and use it to locate land and build and maintain off road parks.

I don't think it will work though.

Sooner or later the enviromentelists will worm their way into the green sticker fund and start to control where the money is spent. They will take the money that is supposed to go for new ohv parks and buy big fancy pick-up trucks and toy-box trailers and a few quads and start to pay police officers to go out and keep those nasty off roaders from going on public land. They will use the funds to buy land around the offroad parks to create buffer zones and will hire a whole gaggle of people to run the offices. They will hire like-minded people that will vote the way they want them to vote on these issues and force the people that oppose them out.

Soon the green sticker fund will become the red sticker fund and we will only be able to ride in the off road parks during certain parts of the year. Many of these parks will be closed down or will go into a state of dis-repair due to the money being spent on other things than the parks.

Many of us will have to spend even more of our money and license our dirt bikes for the street, just so we can still ride. We will be required to still pay for the green sticker fund when we register our bikes and we will also have to pay for the license plate and now, insurance. This will be called, 'Dual registration'. We will also have to spend even more money to hire attorneys and sue to get the off road money to be used for what it was intended for.

Many riders will simply give up and start riding where ever they want. They will start riding places they are not supposed to because there won't be any legal places to ride. The opposition will then say, look what those horrible off roaders are doing to the enviroment.

Many of the riding areas will be shut down and in many counties it will be illegal to ride on your own private property. A lot of people will go to county and city meetings to fight this but, most of us won't We will sit at our computers and tell jokes to one another and suggest ways to fight against this but won't actually take the time to attend these meetings and speak against the opposition or speak up for our rights. The opposition will show up at the meetings and make us look like fools. One of us will stand up and try to explain how this is a good sport that keeps familys together and helps us keep our kids on the straight and narrow path. Then four or five of the opposition will stand up and show a video of some jerk on a un-muffled quad riding back and forth in front of their house in an effort to simply annoy them. And we will stand there looking like idiots. :think:

Don't ask me how I know this stuff. :|

Sarcastic mode OFF. :ugg:

Tony you are right. We ARE our own worst enemys.
We are in the earliest stages of that issue in Texas. Our sticker program doesn't generate very much money mainly because we don't have a great deal of public land and dealers do not want to push the stickers.

We have one BOD member on TMTC that is pushing for a law that requires the purchase of a sticker with every OHV sold here. This is supposed to "help" us as he sees it. I see it as nothing but a tax. If the pile of money gets big enough to be noticed, it will be raided for other "causes".
 
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#8
Tony Eeds said:
We have one BOD member on TMTC that is pushing for a law that requires the purchase of a sticker with every OHV sold here. This is supposed to "help" us as he sees it. I see it as nothing but a tax. If the pile of money gets big enough to be noticed, it will be raided for other "causes".

Tony.

If properly run it will help. Unfortunately, every fatazz politician and agency will see it as their personal slush fund. Many years ago we had to sue the governor of California because he stole the green sticker funds and put it in the general fund. We had to hire attorneys and sue to get the money back. We didn't get the money back but we did prevent them from stealing it for the general fund in the future.

A few years ago the local sheriff conficated, (through a grant) $160,000.00 of our green sticker money and purchased a Ford Crewcab Diesel, a big fancy toybox trailer and several expensive quads to patrol the hills and chase the dirtbikers out. They are now paid to ride the trails in the hills where we ride and give us tickets. The trails in those hills were nothing more than rabbit trails. Not any wider than the width of a knobby. You couldn't even see them from my house. Now, since the sheriff has been riding their quads up there, the trails are wide fireroads. They can be plainly seen from the freeway and the hills look scarred. We rode those hills for over 35 years without changing the look of them or the trails. Now that the sheriff has been riding the quads up there, the whole area looks terrible with wide trails all over the place. And guess who gets blamed for that? Now people write into the newspaper and complain about what those nasty dirtbikers did to the hills. :|

When we ask the county supervisors why we don't have a cycle park in riverside county, they say there is no money for that.

If they start a sticker program in Texas, make sure the stop gaps are put in place in the very beginning or they will figure out a way to steal it and make you guys out to be the bad guys.
 
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#9
Ol 89, could that happen? Yes, of course. It all depends on the foundation it is set up on. Start out right, stay the course and fight for what is right.
 
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#10
Chris in Denver said:
Ol 89, could that happen? Yes, of course. It all depends on the foundation it is set up on. Start out right, stay the course and fight for what is right.
Obviously you're new at this. :|
 
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#11
Really? That is a big assumption. Apathy is the name of the game in any "pro" group. It is easier and more gratifying to be against something than for something. In fact is is easier and more gratifying to tell someone that they are wrong vs. actually having a discussion.

Are you saying that user fees are always wrong and never work? Hmmm, let me call Rampart riding range now to tell them the bad news. Really.

If the Sheriff screwed you, highlight it and get it righted. If no one helped you, sorry, you didn't do a good enough job motivating them. Plain and simple. Don't go around trying to shut down an idea because you failed. Sorry about your loss, but it is yours not mine.
 
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#12
Chris in Denver said:
Really? That is a big assumption. Apathy is the name of the game in any "pro" group. It is easier and more gratifying to be against something than for something. In fact is is easier and more gratifying to tell someone that they are wrong vs. actually having a discussion.
Are you saying that user fees are always wrong and never work?
Don't go around trying to shut down an idea because you failed. Sorry about your loss, but it is yours not mine.
You don't even have a clue Chris. :(

Obviously, you did not get the sarcasm in my post.

I am not trying to shut down your idea, I'm only trying to pass along a little insight from someone that has been involved in land issues since long before you were born. And it's not your idea, it's called the Green Sticker Fund and we have had it in California for over 30 years. Back in the 70's we fought against land closures in the California desert. When you were about three years old Chris, I rode in the Barstow to Vegas Protest ride to protest the closing of this once great race. I have attended more BLM, Forest Service, AMA, County and City meetings than I can count. Don't you dare sit there behind the security of your computer and tell me that I have failed. It is only through the efforts of people like myself that we still have the land that we have and I am only one of many, many people actively involved in this.

For discussion sake, what have you done to insure our riding areas will remain open? Have you joined any organizations that are actively fighting for our rights? Do you send money to these organizations to help them fight for our rights? Do you attend City and County meetings and stand up to speak for our rights? Do you run a quiet silencer on your off road vehicles and obey the laws when on trail? Do you ride only where you are supposed to and not where your not supposed to? Do you write letters and send emails to your political representatives to protest the closing of land and mis-use of funds? Or, do you just sit behind your computer and tell the rest of us how you would do it?

Yes, the user fees do work when properly managed. We have many great off road parks in California sponsored by the Green Sticker fund. Unfortunately, as I already mentioned, many countys are now using this fund for other things than which they were intended. Using it against us.

You hit the nail on the head with 'Apathy'. This is the biggest problem facing the ohv community. Most people wont bother to attend meetings or even send a letter. They are more than willing to tell those of us that do, how they would do it better or how we are doing it wrong but, they won't actually get off of their lazy butts and do it themselves. We tell our riding friends about these meetings and how important they are. We post on the dirtbike sites about how important it is that they show up. But, we can't force people to go. We can't tie them up and drag them there if they don't want to go. If that is being a failure to you then I guess I'm a failure.

Most people don't really care as long as they have their little sand lot to play in. But as soon as someone comes along and closes down their little sand lot, they scream like wounded banshies. :yell: Oh Crap! How could this happen?

If you know of a way of overcoming the Apathy problem, you would be my hero Chris. But until that happens, I will consider you to be just another uninformed voice on the internet. Prove me wrong.


Ol'89r
 

ladieu229

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#13
OL'89r got a point in a few years there is going to be no where to ride trails or even tracks! we need to do something about it!!
 
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#14
Ol'89r said:
You don't even have a clue Chris. :(

If you know of a way of overcoming the Apathy problem, you would be my hero Chris. But until that happens, I will consider you to be just another uninformed voice on the internet. Prove me wrong.


Ol'89r
The silence is deafening.

BTW, Thanks for all your hard work Ol'89r!
 

knowiam

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#15
The Blue Ribbon Coalition www.sharetrails.org

BRC works for the benefit of all of us that ride- I learned of the group from discussions on this website and reading [and thinking about] what people like Ol89r had to say.

I am a Life Member of the BRC since May 2007- I have chosen to be voice along side of others to "preserve our natural resources FOR the public instead of FROM the public."

If anyone can afford to ride, certainly that person can afford to help support the BRC or other OHV advocate groups.

There is a phenomena called: "Sorosis of the Giver" seems those afflicted with this common disease, cannot reach the old wallet when it comes time to give (any amount) to a cause that preserves our sport... Interestingly enough, this disease is mostly temporary as evidenced by the wallet being disengaged at the local restaurant , Starbucks or liquor store. :laugh: :coocoo:

Hope this helps.

Ken---stepping off the soap box and turning his collar back around.