Badgas

Member
Aug 8, 2001
75
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I've seen a few pictures and read a few blurbs about TM's new bike and all I have to say is "MAN, WHAT A GREAT LOOKING BIKE." I know, I know, it's the inner beauty not the outer beauty that counts. What do you think. Can TM, being a very small company, build a good, reliable 4 stroke. Do they have the technology? Is this bike going to be the real McCoy? Or is it only going to be a beautiful pin-up in PlayBike magazine?
 

Greg M

Member
Jun 25, 1999
57
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I have been e-mailing the US importer about TM's new four stroke for over a year. Finally in very late February, he received an evaluation model and he was very impressed. There were some jetting changes to be made and some suspension setup as well. At the time, I was told inventory should be in the country is 60 days.

About six weeks later I checked on the status of the bikes and was again told 60 days. That should have meant end of June.

The website for the US distrubutor used to be TWSUSA.com. I have not been able to access that page in some time??? I know they also used to bring in the VOR bikes, but that may have changed recently.

If the importer still is Motoman, aka TWSUSA, I think they are in good shape. I have spoken to Pete Vetrano on several occassions and he always seemed to be on the level with me. That is, of course, only my experience, but it is something to go on.

If I were to buy a new bike right now, this bike would be on the list. Cycle World said there bike had old world style low end, but ripped on top. They thought it had a much lower center of gravity than a 426.

Parts availability, reliability, etc, I don't know. I like owning a unique bike and am willing to risk the uncertainty that accompanies it.

Greg M
 

TexKDX

~SPONSOR~
Aug 8, 1999
747
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Originally posted by Greg M
I was told inventory should be in the country is 60 days.
About six weeks later I checked on the status of the bikes and was again told 60 days. That should have meant end of June.

Greg M

Yea, and gasgas was saying their 4s was to be available in the US as far back as September of '99...
 

tm-enduro

Member
Mar 7, 2001
254
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I can tell you from experience that TM has a VERY high standard for reliability and when the bike is released it will be up to the TM standard. Parts availability has never been a problem. TM has gone through some changes this year in manufacturing trying to upgrade production numbers to fulfill the requests. Demand has always far outweighed supply. Production may be maxed out just trying to supply 2-stroke orders. Don't forget that TM has a long history of making extremely fast cart motors (they even have classes just for TM-powered carts because they smoke the other brands so badly). TM knows how to build motors. Iin 1994 TM decided to build a 250cc motor for the first time, 9 monthes later it was in prduction and worked great. Too bad the new motor isn't slated to has e-start (or is that the hold up?).
 

Greg M

Member
Jun 25, 1999
57
0
Originally posted by TexKDX


Yea, and gasgas was saying their 4s was to be available in the US as far back as September of '99...

There is just a little bit of difference here. I have been talking to the importer for the past year. Have you been talking to GAS GAS for the same length of time?

I know that Pete was in Italy last July test riding prototypes. He did not even hint at a delivery date back then.

The evaluation models were the Italian production bike (as far as I know) and it was a simple matter of fine tuning the bike for the US market. Also remember that Cycleworld has tested that same model.

GAS GAS has not had a four stroke tested by any magazine that I have seen. They are also struggling with fuel injection.

It turns out the page for TM, www.twsusa.com, is still up and running and I e-mailed them to get an update on their four stroke. I will post back with whatever I find out.

Greg M
 

TexKDX

~SPONSOR~
Aug 8, 1999
747
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Why so argumentative, Greg? What is your point? I'm not disputing anything you have said, am I? All I'm trying to do is point out the similarity in that both brands are experiencing delays in bringing a 4s to market, and the importers keep giving dates that keep slipping.

For the record, yes gg has had prototypes being tested by magazines.

You still got a problem?

TM may be small when it comes to motorcycles, but the parent company makes plenty of motors.
 

Greg M

Member
Jun 25, 1999
57
0
I did not know that Gas Gas has had magazines testing their new four stroke. I watch them all very carefully as I am passionate about exotic bikes.

I just sold my Husky 360 five minutes ago and were it not for needing the cash to complete a video project, I would buy a new bike this week.

Greg M
 

TM-Frank

Member
Dec 15, 2000
325
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TM's 400 fourstrokes are available now over here!
There was a TM dealer at the "Offroad-Challenge 10 hrs. Enduro" near Leipzig last weekend, who competed with the bike. Before the race he let people testride it and those guys were deeply impressed.
As far as I know the bike ran fine during these 10 hours with no problems.
Very beautyful bike!
 

Greg M

Member
Jun 25, 1999
57
0
I just got an e-mail from the importer who said their evaluation model has performed flawlessly but production units are still 45 to 60 days out. Maybe the bike you saw was the same one the importer referred to. It would kind of make sense that they are sending the bike across the country for some heavy duty testing and thrashing.

Greg M
 

Badgas

Member
Aug 8, 2001
75
0
Greg M,

Thanks for the info. Nice to hear the bike has preformed well thus far. Since you seem to have a rapport with the importer, can you do us a favor and ask him a few questions about the bike? How does it handle compared to the YZF and RFS? What is the engine like? YZF or RFS. Have they decide to stay with the 400 and 530 combo or are they going to produce a 450? Did they have to revalve the Paiolies or did KYB really help them? Just general questions. I would very much appreciate it. I sure would hate to plunk down 7 G's for a hopped up KLX.

Thanks for your help.:)
 

Greg M

Member
Jun 25, 1999
57
0
Here is the reply to my request to Pete for more information about the bike. I can't remember which questions you (whoever you are ;)) were hoping to get answered, but I did forward them word for word.



Thanks for your email. TM 4 strokes handle great. But we need to keep it in
perspective. These bikes are imported in Enduro trim softer suspension,
lights, etc. When our 530 MX bike comes out that would be the time to start
comparing to YZF or RFS.
Regarding suspension the 4 strokes will have ohlin forks, although the Paioli
work great on the Enduros.

Best Regards,
Pete
 

Badgas

Member
Aug 8, 2001
75
0
Greg M,

Thanks for the detective work. Sounds like Pete is being very tight lipped about the bike. Ohlin forks, Nice! Thanks anyway.
 

Ronni

Member
Dec 28, 2000
5
0
I have test ridden the TM 400 4T and I can tell you that it is more of a Enduro race bike then any 400 4T that I have ridden. ( KTM EXC 400, Yamaha WR 400). It has more power and performes better then any of the others. I recommend it to those of you seeking something special and if you are willing to spend the money and the extra service ours you will be happy with this bike. It is certainly a head turner.

I have still not tried the Gas Gas but I have heard that its weight is far to high.

Ronni
 

Greg M

Member
Jun 25, 1999
57
0
Ronni,

Thanks for the update. How did you get to ride the bike? Just curious.

Also, mototm.it has new picture of the bikes with the Ohlines forks. They look good, but the "previous" photos looked a whole lot better. Too many colors now. Still, they look better than the Cannondales. I would seriously have considered a Cannondale if they left the MXC in yellow and the EXC in blue. This silver and black stuff is ugly.

Greg Matty
 

Ronni

Member
Dec 28, 2000
5
0
I live in Iceland and our TM importer got one of the first ones from the production line early August. The e-start is however missing on his bike, put I pearsonally like that. He just got back from Milan, Italy from the show and he told me that the e-start version has the same style of e-start as Suzuki uses for the DR400.

He aslo told us about a new VOR 250 4T that is really cool. The have copyed the Cannondale idea of an engine. The carb in front and exhaust out in the back. Also the removable gearbox casette. It seems like the Italians have picked up the Japanese style of copymacine:D

Ronni
 

kipmax

Member
Aug 29, 2001
71
0
I will be riding a TM400 4T Enduro on the 14th of this month during a demonstration. I'll try to get some pics, and will surely give my feedback.

I have ridden the 2504T recently, but not hard (new, and before the owner even threw his leg over it... hehe). Very nice, light and compact.

I have also been helping mellow out a 2001 250 2T. This bike puts out too much power for the average human! I wouldn't worry too much about horsepower if it comes with "TM" on the shrouds...
 
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kipmax

Member
Aug 29, 2001
71
0
Got my first ride on the 400 yesterday while helping my friend (Regional distributor) set it up for next weekend's demo. We had two bikes, the 400 and 250 4T.

If you swapped the swingarm stickers, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart. Well, almost.:confused:

Starting...
Both bikes share common bottom ends. The kick lever and ratio being the same works fine for the 250 but seems much too short and awkward for the 400. Lighter riders will have trouble giving it a good spin. *Proper* use of the hot choke is mandatory.

Speaking of which, detailing leaves a lot of room for development. The hot choke plunger is difficult to reach and requires you to push the fuel hose and filter out of the way to get to. The final insult comes when the same fuel hose / filter pushes the plunger back in just when you think it is going to start.

Once fired up, a quick blip of the wrist will reveal good, quick response. Much quicker and meatier than the 250 4T. Nose levels are acceptable and vibration does not seem to be a problem.

With the jetting the bike arrived with it, we had a little bog in the low to mid range if you are not careful with the throttle. Overall, the engine felt very responsive and strong and of course one meant to be ridden aggressively. :p

The Paioli USD front and Ohlins rear were very responsive to adjustments. We didn't have too much trouble setting it up for our conditions. Stability was great but the front seemed to have a stiction problem that we have noticed on previous models. They need to be disassembled and cleaned after the initial break in, paying special attention to the compression shims.

Brakes are almost scary strong, the rear could use a bit of mellowing in the touch as it is the most common cause of stalling the engine.

The bike had a very stable feel to it, and performed best when ridden hard. We goofed going out with a thrashed Competition III FIM rear tire that caused several heart attacks during the day.

The big problem...

Both bikes caught on fire!!!!! :eek:
The 400 belched smoke from the airbox after several kicks and revealed a toasted air filter in the shop the night before our ride. The 250 did the same the next day in the pit that could have destroyed the bike if it wasn't for a quick T-wrench and a quart of gatorade. Flames lapped from the airbox and melted part of the seat and side covers. Who knows what would have happened if this occured out in the brush under yesterday's dry conditions... :( We are wondering if a steel mesh between the filter and carb duct would help solve this backfire into meltdown problem. (The bike comes without one and shares the same filter and airbox with the two strokes)

Finally, I forgot my camera... I will grab a few shots in the shop this week if anyone is interested and hopefully a few more next weekend at the demo.
 

TexKDX

~SPONSOR~
Aug 8, 1999
747
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Originally posted by Badgas
Here's a picture from TM's web site. Very NICE!!!


http://www.mototm.com/ind_ita_m.html

Hey badgas, I misplaced your email address and your profile does not allow email or PMs.

Gimme a buzz or an email when you get a moment - want to catch up with you now that ridin' season is here.

(Moderator, feel free to send via email to badgas and delete from this thread).
 
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