To Bail or not to Bail

[crazywaynz]

Well after a long day ride on my new GSX-R 600 Suzuki sport bike, i decided to grab some friends and head to the track with my KX 250. We got there and serverly disapointed in the track as it was pretty jacked up and in need of some TLC.
Anyhow i had not riden my dirt bike in like 6 weeks do to work etc. and after a few runs and some idle adjustments etc. i started warming up on th small jumps. about 30-45 mins later i went at the step up ( Approx 80 ft) that is followed by a 40 ft double. I skip the double on this run and would come back for it next run.
Well next run i hit the step up and landed in a rut so i hit the throtle and rode it out. by this time i had no choice but to hit the double do to closeness and speed. which was fine cause i always jump this in 2nd gear a little slower than my current speed but none the less second gear.
So off the lip i go and totally miss the landing by about 15 ft. My bike was at like the 12 o'clock and i was desending. frantically trying to pull it in. it wasnt coming back in for some reason and i ended up kicking it out in front of me. about a 15-20ft fall and i landed on my ass as if i where sitting in a go kart. then bounced and ended up in the cradle on my arms and knees.
Being a medic and my rideing buddy a medic we decided that the severe pain in my lower back and left hip waranted me not moveing and calling an ambulance. after convinceing the fire dep and medics not to cut my boots off and pants etc they removed them and rode me to the hospital where X-rays would soon reveal a partially fractured spine.
If it where not for the hip/butt pads in my rideing pants i think it might have been a little worse. I 'm glade nothing bad came of it and i sould recover no problem. "Thank God"
Now my question to you guys is what went wrong? Was it the cross over from rideing a Sport bike to a dirt bike in one day? (throtle and speed Judgement) Should i have rode it out with the bike even though i faced a rear wheel landing at probably the 2-3 o clock? Or the 6 week break in rideing time? Or any other sugestions that could have caused me to over shoot the landing on a jump that i have jumped many times before. Thanks for your in put. Any riders that ride sport bikes as well i would appreciate your feed back as well.


Crazywayne :ohmy: :ohmy:

 

[MX-727]

Having a hard time visualizing the clock positions you are referring to. I thought you meant the bike was almost vertical at 12 o'clock, but then when you talk about the 2 to 3 o'clock position for landing, that would be almost level and a good landing position.

 

[crazywaynz]

My mistake it would have been more like 10- 11 O' clock bike was almost vertical at the 12 is what i ment.

 

[JulianC]

Well i dont really understand your situation. However the only time i bail is if i can see my bike is goin land short and not quiet make the landing ramp :yikes: . The reason being the bike is going to hit it and stop but i wont. other then that i try to ride stuff out one because at those hieght even if you land with your bike then come off or the suspention throws your off its still a lot softer fall then from bailing 20-30ft up. sencondly i have found that when i try ride stuff out 9/10 you can manage to get some sought of control and even through you still come off neither your or the bike are any where near as bad.

 

[chewgravel]

WOW. Sorry no advice, but hope you recover quickly.

 

[YZ165]

Don't bail. You may crash, and even get hurt, but it's better to let the suspension take some of the hit. You may have landed on the back wheel, then gotten tossed over the bars, or fallen off the back, but either way the speed at impact would have been less. Have you seen the video of Seth overjumping that 240'+ double? He got hurt bad, but the other alternative would have been worse IMO. There are situations where the suspension dosen't come into play. If the bike is going to stop dead, then I guess jumping off would be about the same as landing with it. My .02 Get well soon, YZ165

 

[OldassKDX]

I'm not sure I get it.....10 or 11 o'clock landing? How'd you manage to get the bike upside down? Or were you referring to the position of the rear tire not the front? I really don't understand the situation at all.

 

[YZ165]

Front tire at 12 o'clock, back at 6 o'clock.

 

[Studboy]

The good old unintentional kiss of death. My friend has a bad habit of doing that, it seems almost impossible to recover from once it gets that far and you aren't expecting it. Usually you can just ride it out though as scary as it is.

 

[jmb86]

A captain always goes down with his ship. I dont actually believe that and advise you not to either, I just felt that cliches were horribly under represented in this discussion.
Thats just my opinion, and what would I know?

 

[Anssi]

As you probably know, the angle always seems more extreme than it is. However, if you were truly going to land past vertical, I think you did the right thing by bailing out.

 

[blackoutyz125]

I dont bail just because I cant stand to see my bike crashing helpless with out me... I got alot of my money into that bike. I have insurance, the bike doesnt.

 

[Imho]

How about "Get out while the getting's good"? Unfortunately, the last three accidents I've had seem to have happen so fast that I haven't had time to think about bailing. I must be getting old.

 

[shnalln]

Well, don't feel bad, I did the same thing and broke my ankle. There are a million and one things that go through your head when you know it's gonna hurt. The thing that keept flashing through my head in my experience was that if I did ride it out, the bike would come back on me with handle bars breaking my femor/s. Maybe it would have, maybe it wouldn't have...damned if you do, damned if you don't...Personally I don't plan on reliving that experience to find out. So far I've been much more carefull about not being in the power band at the face of any jumps. I'm much too old to go that fast anyhow...

 

[va_yzrider]

So far I've been much more carefull about not being in the power band at the face of any jumps. I'm much too old to go that fast anyhow...

Just make sure your head is over the bars when you go off the jump and it will never happen again. I'm more scared of not being in the powerband on a jump than going front wheel high.

 

[shnalln]

Yea, your right...I just rode for the first time in six months the other day...talk about gun shy, I've got mental issues to work out now... everybody already knows that though... :laugh: ...untill I get it worked out, I'm just being carefull...nose heavy can be just as bad... :think:

 

[Shig]

I remember seeing an AMA Supercross promotional add a few years back that showed alot of crash highlights. One of them was Jeff Ward over-jumping a huge triple, and his bike was at "12 O Clock" as well. He didn't bail out. In fact, it looked like he was grabbing the back brake with everything he had while trying to get close to the seat for the impact. In any case, he stayed with it to the landing and got spit off the back after the hit. Letting the bike take the initial hit saved him from what surely would have been a broken leg or worse.

Another crash in the add showed Mikey Pidgeon ejecting over handle bars on a huge triple to avoid landing on another rider. In that case, ejecting would be the best thing to do.

 

[va_yzrider]

shnalln, keeping your head over the bars keeps the bike neutral and keeps you in a position to adjust the bike's attitude. When you are off the back of the bike you can't bring it back b/c the bike is controlling you instead of you controlling the bike. I wouldn't advocate this advice on a downhill kicker though, then you will be on your head (and nobody wants that)!

Also, I know about being gun-shy after taking a break. However, I try to warm up and get as aggressive as possible as quickly as possible. For me, being aggressive keeps me out of trouble b/c I'm always on my toes and not nervous. Not being aggressive enough caused me to case a triple a couple of weeks ago, luckily I rode it out with very little negative results.

Personally, I try to stay with the bike unless I KNOW that it isn't going to be a good idea. Last weekend I got cross-rutted on a sandy tabletop (I know, my fault but I was tired and not paying attention). It is a low trajectory 50 footer that doesn't allow for too much error. Well, I was completely sideways in the air and tried to bring it back but couldn't b/c of the low trajectory of the jump. Well, I landed sideways and the bike slid down the landing on both wheels and since I was on the gas it straightened up and away I rode. I couldn't believe I rode away from that one and would love to have seen it from the third person point of view (although I would have kicked myself). The point is that you never know what will happen.

Shig, good examples of the pros showing us how to wreck somewhat safely, haha.

 

[shnalln]

Right, body position is everything, this I understand. That's what got me. I came out of a burm out of shape and said **** it at the jump that was right after. I thought I had enough time to set up, but didn't make it in time and well, the rest is history.
Shigs example of Jeff Ward says it all when contimplating a mid air bail, it makes sense that the suspention would kick you off. A person would probably have to be right at or beyond vertical for the bike to come back on ya, and as someone else said, you usually feel more vertical than you actually are. Freinds that seen me loop it out said that I was probably about "11 O'clock" at max height when I pushed away, but it sure felt like I was in worse shape than that. I probably could have rode that out or at least got kicked off by the bike...All I know is that it doesn't do any good to keep playing it back in your head as this will psych you out. You just need to realize your mistake, and learn from it.
Once I get my balance back (that's caused from my habbit of favoring my ankle), I'll be good to go...seat time, seat time, seat time... :cool:

 

[va_yzrider]

Right, body position is everything, this I understand. That's what got me. I came out of a burm out of shape and said **** it at the jump that was right after. I thought I had enough time to set up, but didn't make it in time and well, the rest is history.
QUOTE]

Ah, done that before. I hate it when my mind tries to make my body faster than it is. :eek:

 

[TWRT]

I did a very similar thing and stayed with the bike. When it landed (vertical, ie 11-12 oclock), I (by mistake) grabbed a whole handful of gas and the bike whipped me off the back and hard, hard, hard down on the ground in a sitting position. That was about 3 months ago and I am sitting on one cheek now as I type. Reading this thread made my butt hurt even more......... I am getting pretty good at riding semi side-saddle though...

I've always stayed with the bike, but in this case, I think I would have been better off to bail. My problem is that I freeze when things go wrong and staying with the bike is then what happens :(

 

[shnalln]

I envisioned the very same thing happening to me, which is what caused me to bail...at the time I was wearing A-Stars vector boots which I beleive is why my ankle broke. I probably would have walked away had I been wearing my new SIDIs.

 

[markthomps]

I did something similar but at a lessor height about two weeks ago. I came off a step-up double a little too enthusiastically (WFO) and suddenly I was headed for the moon.

The rule of thumb I've always followed is that once the bike is full-tits VERTICAL, it's time to bail off. Which is what I did, landing on my toes and side. The landing ripped three toe nails loose, despite a new pair of boots (!) so it was a hard hit.

My CR traced an arc up about 10 feet and about 40 feet down the track. By now I was watching it, since we had parted ways. If I'd tried to hang on as some are advising, no way I would've gotten off so easy. At the worse, I would've had the bike go upside down, dragged around by my weight and then pile-driving me into the track. For sure that would hurt.

By letting it go (bailing), I survived with no real damage and the bike only tweaked a lever slightly.

Every crash-to-be situation is different and I nearly always ride them out. But once the front wheel is that far out of line, that's past the point where you're likely to save it, ride it out, or escape without injury if you try. So like I said, rule of thumb, if the front is full vertical, that's probably a clue you should step off. You might still get hurt, but at least you won't have 220 lbs of motorcycle coming down on top of you.

 

[Shig]

Every crash-to-be situation is different and I nearly always ride them out. But once the front wheel is that far out of line, that's past the point where you're likely to save it, ride it out, or escape without injury if you try. [/QUOTE]

Amen Brother...Where were you ten years ago when my CR 250 came down on top of me? The bike was at about 14 O' Clock, and I dislocated my shoulder because I didn't bail :( . Looking back, I think I could have ridden it out if I had just panic-reved it into a back flip :) .

 

[crazywaynz]

Thnxs for the replies guys, now i just have to talk my wife in to keeping my bike while i sit in a half body cast for the next month or 2.

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