Tried of the 250F "ultimate bike" reference's

[TheJunkMan]

I agree with wardy about the cam chain bussiness, but i also figure they took that into acount when they bought the bike, that is why I do not genneraly buy 4 stroke(used) street motorcycles. That is why I do not ride my Z1 too much cam chains are obcelete for that bike.

 

[Offroadr]

I dont have anything against the 4-strokes as such, but nobody gains anything from losing the 2-strokes , it will only cost more , and we will have fewer tracks to race on....

well said! The noise issue alone is going to cause more damage thananything

 

[70 marlin]

I like both! And own both. Being the squid that I am. Four strokes just take less mental thought for me. Now I can concentrate on riding techniques and trying to make it to the end of the trail faster. There still nothing like the smell of two strokes in morning! You know its time to ride.

 

[Okiewan]

mental thought

Humm... what other kind is there? :p

I've owned both, but I like being lazy. If I could get rid of the 2-stroke weed eater, I wouldn't need no stinkin' pre-mix.

 

[Senior KX Rider]

If you want to try a 4 stroke weedeater......I have one thats been hanging in the garage for a couple years. That gutless POS :|

 

[zcookie49]

I like my lil pig, but I am also thinking about picking up a used 02-03 yz250 this year as well. Maybe I am paranoid about the future of them or what, but I do know that the 2smokers are fun to ride as well.
I would agree that more R&D has shifter to the 4 smokers, I got a bad feeling that even if they dont ban the 2smokes, they may become like the past KX500's and CR500's, models that dont ever change except for BOLD NEW graphics.

 

[elf]

2stroke vs 4 stroke who cares? You should all be happy. Why? Look at all the choices we have for dirtbikes.We have more good bikes out there than ever before. I say enjoy it while it lasts!

 

[weimedog]

Welcome to marketing....THe industry is trying to change before the Fed's force the change. The added benifit is the increased revenue flow as fourstrokes are more expensive in about every way from initial price to maintenance....and as someone mentioned they are a good thing for the dealers.

I happen to like my fourstrokes...at my advanced age they have a few advantages. I also know a younger me would have hated the extra weight and top heavy feel vs. two strokes.

Of course this is from a guy who's ultimate dream bike would be a Honda CR250 Chassis with grease fittings on the linkages(or VOR chassis ...trust me they can be that good) with a large bore air cooled two stroke on top of a modern two stroke light weight bottom end with light weight ingnition/flywheel......simple flexible power...fast..less crap to break and worry about....no freaking POWER valves and watercooling to work around....

 

[motometal]

Like Wardy says, this is all about BUSINESS. Think about it!

1. It was time for a change if they wanted to sell more bikes. Dirt bikes have become very durable. If properly maintained, they last for many seasons. Many folks will just keep recycling the same bikes. Granted, mfgs make some $$ from the parts, but they would rather sell more new bikes.

2. Up until the "new" four strokes came out, there weren't any real exiting breakthroughs in the last few years. About the only thing coming to mind is the RC valve, although the '02 CR actually got slower in '02 (first yr of the RC valve).

so, between the "down" economy and no big changes, bikes just weren't selling.

3. The mfgs know that some of us will want to stay 2 stroke. While the price of a new 2 stroke has come down a bit (this may be temporary...supply/demand), the r. and d. / tooling cost for these bikes is way down due to the "trickle down" effect from the new 4 strokes. Don't assume that the mfg or dealer is losing their shorts on a new bike just because the selling price has come down!

4. I don't think the epa regs bummed out the mfg's all that much. They would love nothing more than for you do decide that your 1 to 3 season old two stroke is holding you back, prompting you to go down to the dealership and pay close to full retail for the latest "F". If a little while later you decide the new "F" isn't all that great and then you buy a new 2 stroke, they just sold ANOTHER new bike! And, chances are that in a few years you will switch to an "F" AGAIN thinking that by that time they are better........

looks like we are going to worry about long term reliability, lost riding areas due to noise, etc etc at a later time I guess...



lately I have been thinking more and more about buying a 250F. I have fun when I ride one, but i'm having trouble getting around the fact that the weight and price is right there with a 250 2 stroke, with not near the hp. Of course, those racing in the 125 class don't have the option of riding a 250 2 st.

 

[marcusgunby]

Were going to loose one of the oldest running tracks in England due to the noise of the 4 strokes-its been open since 1920 but the crop of new 4 strokes are way too loud for the local residants to put up with-the way fo the future hmmm.

i can see it now 2008, all 4 strokes banned-no 2 strokes have been produced since 2005 and the price of secondhand 2 strokes goes throught the roof.Price of secondhand 4 strokes drops to the point where only farmers are buying them to herd cattle.

 

[elf]

Thats a nice theory marcus, but the more likely scenario is silencers that weigh 10 pounds.

 

[wardy]

well that is why i will have an A/F 500 service Honda til i am to stinkin old to throw a leg over one, then I will have AJ, weld a 500 into my "rascal" scooter. I guess they will likely make some form of 2 stroke oil if not warm up some "Crisco."

wardy

 

[Offroadr]

i can see it now 2008, all 4 strokes banned-no 2 strokes have been produced since 2005 and the price of secondhand 2 strokes goes throught the roof.Price of secondhand 4 strokes drops to the point where only farmers are buying them to herd cattle.

:think: ouch

 

[gwcrim]

lately I have been thinking more and more about buying a 250F. I have fun when I ride one, but i'm having trouble getting around the fact that the weight and price is right there with a 250 2 stroke, with not near the hp.

How about a KX500? The price was just lowered this year, they're not very heavy and they have more power than dang near anything in the dirt. I mean really..... why not?

 

[Moto Squid]

For this season I've jumped on the 250F bandwagon. Last night was my first race for the year and I observed something very interesting....in 125C there were maybe 2 thumpers in the whole class. But in 125B there were a whole crap load of 250f's with only a handful of 2 strokes :think: 125A at least 2 outa the 3 were 250f's also. Almost seems that lots of guys that were decent C riders bought a thumper and moved to B!?!?

While I like my bike I'm still not totally use to it. I still want to ride it like a 2 stroke and thats causing issues...but if I lug it more I feel sooooo slow which just ends up making me mad. For giggles I'd love to have my old 125 still and just compare lap times and such during a practice day...that'd be interesting

 

[motometal]

around here we still regularly see 125 and 250 races won on a two stroke. These guys could probably win on just about any decent running bike. It's amusing to see a whole field of "superior" four strokes get waxed by one of those midevil contraptions (the two stroke).

 

[marcusgunby]

A 4 stroke is a totally underpower bike that has to have a engine twice as big to compete, lets see how a 125 4 stroke compares to a 125 2 stroke? can you say 15hp?

 

[Okiewan]

Sitting in the stands at the Dallas SX, it was nearly impossible to find a 2-stroke in the 125 class... practice, heats, main.. I counted no more than two.

 

[trout]

Sitting in the stands at the Dallas SX, it was nearly impossible to find a 2-stroke in the 125 class... practice, heats, main.. I counted no more than two.

How about the winners circle?

 

[Rich Rohrich]

How about the winners circle?

Needless to say the same person would have been there had he been riding a Schwinn Apple Crate with a Whizzer engine attached. :cool:

 

[Okiewan]

No doubt. I was just making an observation, not commenting on which is better or worse.


3 in the top 10 (looks like I missed one!)
4th, 8th & 9th for the 2-Stroke.

Dallas

1 29 Ivan Tedesco KX250F
2 25 Nathan Ramsey CRF250R
3 52 Greg S Schnell Honda CRF250R
4 949 Jay Marmont KTM 125SX
5 83 Michael R Blose YZ250F
6 18 Brock Sellards YZ250F
7 68 Joshua Hansen YZ250F
8 106 Rodrig Thain Suzuki RM125
9 614 Justin D Brayton CR125R
10 330 Darcy G Lange KX250F

 

[bclapham]

someone should give #614 a medal for getting a CR125 into the top 10 of a main!!!!

the announcer at our club is Tom White (ala WhiteBros), he was talking about the WB thumper race the next day at Glen Helen and how Rick Doughtey of vintage Iron is already setting up a 2-stroke series and how the WB race might not be a 4-stroke race that much longer.

GH are having a "prequel" event for the Nationals, i wont be here to see it but it will be interesting how outnumbered the 2 strokes are, epecially in the 250F class :(

 

[Okiewan]

They really do need to change the name of the class... Boyd was referring to it as the "Mid Size Class" all night.

With all those thumpers out there, you could still hear the 2-strokes, which surprised me. Sure was loud though, ear plugs are a necessity.

 

[DougRoost]

It was quite loud -- and Dallas is an open stadium! I'd like to see the AMA enforce a noise limit of some sort, just like those of us who buy the bikes have to operate under. Of course that won't happen since it would work against the 4-stroke agenda.

Fast forward a couple years when lawsuits for hearing loss start hitting, then maybe...

 

[2smoke]

Out here we have Pro Open (450/250) and Pro Lite (250/125) as the class names. I dont know though....I kinda like referring to the classes by capacity not through a wanky name some promoter thought would sell. But hey..times they are a changin.