Crispie0

Member
May 2, 2002
37
0
I have a '02 220 and put stiffer springs in the front, which helped. I left the rear alone. I weigh around 180. I'm still not happy with the suspension. Since it's high-winter and no riding for awhile I was contemplating working on the suspension or sending it off to get it done (dependent on price). I was thinking of gold valves or something along that lines... What kind of money is involved and for what? Feedback appreciated.
 

Smit-Dog

Mi. Trail Riders
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Oct 28, 2001
4,704
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I weigh the same and have an '02 KDX 220. I sent my forks off to MX-Tech for stiffer springs and a revalve. $340 complete.

As with any suspension tuner, give them as much information as possible regarding your skill level, the type of terrain you ride, speed, and what you are looking to change / improve.
 

Zerotact

~SPONSOR~
Dec 10, 2002
1,001
0
Since you already put in stiffer springs, you will save a litte money.. I also sent my fork to MX-tech, and have been pleased. What aren't you happy with on your suspension? I just didn't like how the front end floated like an old boat of a car, and then dove as soon as you tapped the brakes...
 

gwhII

Member
Mar 31, 2003
238
0
First off, I'm wordy. :-)

I weigh a little more than you so ended up doing the fork springs/gold valves and rear shock spring. I'll include everything I ended up using. Its a real PITA when you need to order something and it lengthens the process by a week. Kawasaki parts took me a week from ordering to arrival. My costs are basically as follows:

Aftermarket parts:
Fork springs - $100
Gold valves - $149
2 Qt Silkolene 5wt - $24
Rear shock spring - $110

Needed specialty tools:
in/lb torque wrench
ft/lb torque wrench
cartridge holding tool - can either be fabricated ~$7 or purchased from FRP for ~$25
9/16" grade 8 bolt double nutted to remove cartridge ~$2
soft jaws in vise
shim to separate springs/preload from fork cap - sounds like you already have it.
File.
Metric tape measure.
Breaker bar.

Nice-to-have specialty tools:
43mm seal driver ~$60 (I would say its needed but there may be a way around it)
Sag measurement tape ~$20
Fork oil syringe - can be fabricated or bought for ~$50
micrometer and/or dial caliper to measure shim thicknesses.
10mmx1.0 plug tap to thread a piece of tubing to make a rod holder.
2 6"x6"x3' plastic flower boxes/planters to keep both individual fork tube pieces together.

Incidentals:
I took my forks completely apart and munged the teflon coating on the outer bushings and so replaced both outer and inner bushings and the fork seals. The OEM seals and bushings added another $50.

Like Smit was saying, no matter who you order from, mx-tech, race tech, etc, they'll ask you questions as to weight, type of riding, and skill level, and make recommendations. I went with race tech and set up my suspension a little on the firm side but I like it that way. You probably won't save money doing it yourself if you don't already have most of the tools, especailly the torque wrenches. It was a fun process and the intructional video with the gold valves was extremely helpful to me, especially since the Kawi valve and the gold valve only have the cartridge body and the 10mm top nut in common.

Follow the video and the Kawi manual and it all works. The first leg took forever and the second took about a half-hour. :-)

Best,
Greg
 

Crispie0

Member
May 2, 2002
37
0
I don't trust the cornering and workout with aggressive riding One of my problems might be my preload. When I'm going balls to the wall over ridiculous terrain it seems jarring (sp) to my upper body, not enough absorption. I've tried dialing it in but to no avail. More suggestions....
 

kevin c.

Member
Jan 28, 2003
42
0
I too am unhappy with the front forks on my 03-220 I did get frp springs and that helped some but,, I was also thinking of a revalving job,, has anyone had frp do this for them? if so how do you like it now? , thanks Kevin
 

Zerotact

~SPONSOR~
Dec 10, 2002
1,001
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I concidered Having FRP re-valve my forks but, all he installs is gold vavles... that's why I sent mine off to MX tech.
 

gwhII

Member
Mar 31, 2003
238
0
Originally posted by Crispie0
I don't trust the cornering and workout with aggressive riding One of my problems might be my preload. When I'm going balls to the wall over ridiculous terrain it seems jarring (sp) to my upper body, not enough absorption. I've tried dialing it in but to no avail. More suggestions....

This is my setup and I'm a 230# OK rider... I'm running about 9mm of preload on the .46kg springs, cH7 shim stack in the gold valves, stock fork oil level, damping is 11c out, 5.2kg shock spring with sag set to ~95mm and the suspension seems to be doing the job. When I had the stock parts in, with me weighing 230, the front fork would compress and rebound very quickly on fast bumpy terrain which I attributed to there being too light springs combined with excessive preload and incorrectly set damping. The stock spacers combined with stock springs seemed to give me more than 15mm of preload which I think was the factory's way to make the suspension "work" for riders over the 130# limit.

I only have the stock suspension to compare to and the springs/gold valves were a tremendous improvement in stability. The front end definitely doesn't dive like it used to. Also, I'm a trail rider not a jumper. I don't know of cons to Race Tech/ gold valves but everyone has their preferences. The kit is straight forward though some of the drawings are a bit generic and mocking up the first valve a few times made it come clear as to how it all went together and worked. I asked around and searched the web and everyone I talked to or read about seemed to be pretty happy with them.

Best,
Greg
 

Braahp

~SPONSOR~
Jan 20, 2001
641
0
Originally posted by kevin c.
what are the pros and cons of gold valves?

 

From RaceTech's site     "Stock valving pistons have very restrictive ports. This makes it impossible to get the ultimate results with the stock pistons. Gold Valves triple the flow area putting valving control on the shim stack instead of the overly restricted stock piston. This results in outstanding tuneability, improved control, traction, plushness and bottoming resistance."
 

John Harris

Member
Apr 15, 2002
552
0
Before or after you make big improvements in your front forks, buy a new, good front tire. It will make all the difference in the world in the way the front end will stick, even with bone stock suspension.
 

Smit-Dog

Mi. Trail Riders
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Oct 28, 2001
4,704
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I made the mistake of not riding for 20 years, then jumping on a new KDX with stock springs (I'm 180lbs) and stock tires. The second day of riding, my front end washed out on an easy 10MPH berm in the woods. Broken collarbone. Out for 4 months.
 

m304051

Member
Jul 19, 2003
16
0
I have an '03' 220 too. I have two riding buddies that also have 220s, one that had Gold Valves in the forks and one that sent his suspension out, front and rear, to Factory Connection. I've ridden both bikes and they are similar, but the one with gold valves in the forks seemed a bit soft, almost too soft, but that could have been his settings. They both have the stiffer fork springs. Consequently, I sent my suspension out to Factory Connection too for the mods and love it. It costs about $600 for them to do it, but that's a one time fee. Any future mods are done for free. As for the front end washing out; I also had a problem with that, but when I raised the forks up in the triple clamp 1/4" the problem went away. It's a little twitchy at really high speeds, but worth it for the way it turns now. Make sure the sag is set properly in the rear first. Good luck!
 

seancza

Member
Apr 22, 2003
83
0
I just checked out the Race Tech site. Their calculation for shock springs for me (170 lbs, '01 220) is to use a 0.42 kg spring. FRP site recommends a 0.38 kg spring. What's everyone's experience on this. Do the suppliers like Race Tech and MX Tech generally recommend stiffer springs. What's everyone's conclusion, slightly stiffer or not
 

john_bilbrey

Member
Mar 22, 2003
255
0
Originally posted by m304051
I have an '03' 220 too. I have two riding buddies that also have 220s, one that had Gold Valves in the forks and one that sent his suspension out, front and rear, to Factory Connection. I've ridden both bikes and they are similar, but the one with gold valves in the forks seemed a bit soft, almost too soft, but that could have been his settings. They both have the stiffer fork springs. Consequently, I sent my suspension out to Factory Connection too for the mods and love it. It costs about $600 for them to do it, but that's a one time fee. Any future mods are done for free. As for the front end washing out; I also had a problem with that, but when I raised the forks up in the triple clamp 1/4" the problem went away. It's a little twitchy at really high speeds, but worth it for the way it turns now. Make sure the sag is set properly in the rear first. Good luck!

Raise the forks in the clamps, meaning expose more fork out the top of the triple clamp or less? Right now, mine is about 1/4" exposed from the top.
 

marksharp

~SPONSOR~
Sep 29, 2002
69
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I think spring stiffness selection is affected a lot by your riding style, that's why the Race Tech quesionaire addresses that issue. If you tend to get aggressive at all, I'd opt for the stiffer of the two. The Gold Valves IMO allowed for a plusher ride while offering more resistance to bottoming due to the flow rate and heavier springs. I also agree that tires are another major improvement in handling. I know there are different opinions here on that subject, but I recently put Michelin S-12s front and rear and WOW a major improvement was felt immediately, both in the front sticking through the turns as well as rear hook up. Each step improves this motorcycle in a big way... it's a blast to ride!
 

KDXNick

~SPONSOR~
Oct 15, 2002
53
0
Good tires help out a lot. For the eastern woods the S-12s, D-756s, & D-752s will produce a marked improvement over the stock K-490. However, if you are a trail rider over 160lbs. or have even considered racing HS or GNCC at C class or above, you should do something with the fork. Stiffer springs are cheap ($60-70), effective, and easy to install, while professional revalves are almost a must for the racer/serious rider. The stock fork is (arguably) the greatest weakness on the modern KDX's, and should receive first attention (over tires or engine). I made this mistake 5 years ago when I came off of a YZ 125 and decided to neglect the soft fork and invest in tires, reeds, and a FMF pipe/silencer; before the first HS on my new KDX. After an 8-hour surgery, a cadaver's generous donation of carpal bones, titanium hardware, nerve work, and 6 months down time; my next move consisted of sending the fork to Pro-Action as soon as I could afford it. In an off-road event, a KDX with suspension mods and a stock engine could easily beat a KDX with engine mods and stock suspension. In most off-road conditions (except for deep mud), dialed-in suspension paired with any random combo of modern off-road tires, will provide a rider with greater benefits than would a perfect tire combo paired with severely unbalanced suspension (such as found on the stock KDX). Ride for a bit, and push it. What feels like it is giving first? The most often?
Best of luck!
Never stop riding!!!
-Nick
 

Crispie0

Member
May 2, 2002
37
0
For those who went with the MX-Tech, did you revalve the base valve or did you go all out and add rebound and a midvalve?

Either way how do you like the set up and would you do it again?

Thanks for the reply's!
 

Robcolo

Member
Jan 28, 2002
342
0
What I've found and Most others seem to say is that biggest bang-for-the-buck is stiffer front fork springs. My 220 went from dangerously unrideable to very trustworthy by changing those springs. The front end will still be very harsh - actually more so because of the stiffer spring - RT Gold Valves or a second party revalve is the only cure here - and an absolute must. I went the GV route and have tuned out every bit of that harshness [it took a couple of trys to get it right] Getting someone @ RT on the phone for help is a REAL problem so don't try installing them the day before a big race. Once you've gone through the initial process , though, it's very simple and YOU are in charge. You can re-valve in just over an hour - any time - no need to spend $$ & time packing & shipping & waiting for the "free" re-valve. I was so pleased with the forks that I also got GVs for the rear shock. I bought my GVs from Fredette and found his recommended stack configurations way too stiff for my riding - [I think he configures them for enduros & less rocky terrain] so I went back to the stack recommended on RTs website. If you're mechanically challenged though, have a suspension shop do it.
 

canyncarvr

~SPONSOR~
Oct 14, 1999
4,005
0
Your suspension will turn out as good as the person working on it, probably.

MX-tech did mine. Wow...$340? I wish mine cost that much!! What, prices are 1/2 what they used to be?

When I got mine back, I wasn't particularly impressed. Wondered why I spent so much money for not too much effect.

Then I rode my buddy's kdx that still had the oem suspension. Guess I didn't recall correctly how incredibly lousy the oem setup was. It about scairt me to death!!

I've tried some other stack setups on jeremy's hardware (input from another tuner). Changed it back.

It would be nice if they (mx-tech) would be nice enough to share their latest stack setups with riders already riding their stuff, but last time I asked about it I got shutdown pretty quick.

Guess if I paid only $340 I wouldn't mind so much.

Maybe I'm just speshul?

Believe it or not, there is a point here. There is some FM going on with stack configurations. If you know all there is to know about 'em, that's great. I don't. So, best to trust in a tuner you have faith in. Even that's not always the ticket. The stack change I mentioned I tried came from a tuner that has an excellent reputation. I've ridden his work on another kdx and it was terrific. He massages the oem hardware and revalves it. He did make clear that he was not familiar with the mx-tech hardware (the base valve) so was just guessing on the valving. It was more of an experiment than anything else.

I didn't care for it as much as jeremy's work. The opposite was true of the shock valving, but that's another story.

MX-tech does good work! I had some trouble with the springs that 'came with'..but jeremy was right on the ball when it came to getting it sorted out.

re: pros and cons.

The people that like gold valves think they are great.

The people that don't think they are a waste of breath.

...kinda goes back to the faith and trust isssue, 'eh?

Things like clicker settings, oil levels and preload make a huge difference no matter who does the valving.
 

john_bilbrey

Member
Mar 22, 2003
255
0
Without beating an already beaten horse further, what about a mixed terrain? I ride in an area that spans thick mud to nasty rocks. Some really fast fire roads, and some really slow, tight single track. How do you setup for such a mixture? Seems like making the suspension work for one area would hurt it in another. I know that I need to get stiffer springs for the 220 (thinking that .40s will be right for me @ 185 w/o gear) and probably a valve job as well. Is a "middle of the road" setup going to be OK for both types, or just mediocre in both?
 

Braahp

~SPONSOR~
Jan 20, 2001
641
0
Bilbrey.............I'd say set it up for the nasty stuff. With .40's no way you would be too stiff for the not as nasty stuff. .39's or .40's would be fine. Anything over that is just too stiff IMO. Set it up right and it will work wonders in all conditions. I know where you ride John and I liked the Fredette .39's better than the XR .40's. Of course I use a little stiffer valving though with the GV's. I went back to .39 springs w/ stock preload and I weigh 225. You guys spending all this money on suspension are crazy. Get the GV's from Fredette and he will set the stack up for you zip tied together and ready to install. Then put springs and such in yourself. Its REALLY easy. Do it yourself! Heck I've got to where I can change both springs in about 15-20 minutes. Once you do it you'll say..."wow that was one of the easiest mods I have done". I'd be glad to put your stuff in for you John when time comes. My rate is one Corona. :) Even if its just a spring swap it does wonders for a KDX! Now John...........when we going to Copelands Cove? Is Cliff your Uncle? Just trying to figure out if your the Bilbrey I know.
 
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