Upgrading from KDX: KTM or GAS GAS?

[Lightfoot]

I've been on a KDX 200 for 5 years and have previously ridden mainly 125 mx bikes. I ride with some really fast enduro racers and although I don't race much myself I try to keep there pace. They all ride KTM's and I really have to work on my KDX to keep up.
We also have a new Gas Gas dealer in town and the bikes look awesome. Are they worth the extra $? I should add that I'm 38 years old, 5'7" and 130 lbs wet so I want the lightest, easiest to handle bike available. I've considered going back to a 125 but I don't feel like battling a pipey bike all day in the tight stuff. Also MX suspension will probably be to stiff for me in the woods.
From everything I've read and most peoples advice, the KTM exc200 is the choice, but that GAS GAS looks so nice and with everything around here being orange, it would be nice to be different.
Thanks in advance.

Scott

 

[drz mick]

Definitely go for the KTM if you want to keep up. The GasGas is a gentler Trail bike style-heavier and with a milder power/torque curve compared to the KTM. Great for Enduro but for all out fun and games you want a Katosh you do !
GG haven't quite got the build quality and reliability cracked yet.
I've just ridden the 200EXC in the UK- buy one! You won't be disapointed. It goes like stink, is light and great fun.
Sometimes its better to conform. You will look different pushing your bike 10 miles back out of the trail !!!

 

[dand]

Go Gas Gas be different , be better... From most people you here very little problems and the 200 xc is awesome.. Also base it a little on the dealer, is one much better than the other??

 

[bud]

I know it's not one of your options, but if I was that weight and riding mostly tight woods, I'd rather be on a current yz or rm 125 than a 200exc. I'm about 180 and even at that weight I preferred the 125 for it's flickability. The cr I rode felt a bit stiff and pipey, but the yz had great power and suspension. Of course the exc is great too, especially if you're not a hard-revver by nature. Jm2c :).

 

[Lightfoot]

Actually, I've always been a revver and am seriously considering a 125. I've gotten used to the wide powereband of my KDX but except for the tightest spots I'm always screeming it.
I was about this close to buying a KTM 125 SX last week but had second thoughts. I want light and flickable. I definately want a better suspension than my KDX but still somewhat plush.
You got me thinking again.

Scott

 

[Shaw520]

There's a reason why your buddies are riding them orange bikes!... You will conform,....EXC200,...repeat after me,....EXC200. ;)

 

[OregonMagoo]

The key word in your question is "upgrade". The answer is elementary my dear Holmes...upgrade = Gas Gas:p

 

[mechantloup]

EXC 200

A 200 exc IS basically a bored 125 ...same engine case/trans and same frame ,the Gas Gas use the same frame as a 250 ,so if you want flickability you should go orange ...IMO :)

 

[woodchuck]

you'd be pleased with either

Lightfoot IMHO,

It is rare to hear of a GG owner who isn't very pleased with his/her bike. KTMs as well are awesome bikes. I came off a 94 KDX, to an older model KTM exc250 (and I liked the bike), but have switched to a 99 GG EC300. The power delivery of the GG is electic smooth. The newer XCs have a bit more of a hit to them (I hear) but are still tamer than the KTM excs. My GG has much much smoother power delivery than a KTM 300. That is good, if that is what you want. A hit is fun for play/trail riding, a reduced hit is good for maintaining traction, and reduced fatigue (nice in tight woods or on long rides).

If you want a quality bike that is a little different from the others I would not hesitate to go with the Gas Gas. However If you go orange you'll get a quality bike and be pleased as well (and receive less razing from your buddies)

good luck with your choice,
the WoodChuck

 

[EK]

Lightfoot,

Here are my 2 cents worth:

Ride both before you buy. Everybody has their preferences. It is worth the extra effort to get the right machine for you.

The GasGas has much less vibration than the KTM. Less fatigue and annoyance. The power delivery on the GasGas machines are very nice - ride it and find out for yourself.

Make sure you have good dealer support - post sale. With GasGas there is Smackover MotorSports. They have most parts in stock and can ship them to you in a few days.

Eric K
'01 GasGas 300XC

 

[RMDUSTER71]

Lightfoot,

I'm with EK, test ride them if you can! Just remember that KTM probably has more dealers(parts availability and more dealers to choose from for service). I would recommend that you don't go smaller than the 200 because you will get used to the power. If you get a 125 you'll just out grow it. I don't know what Bud is talking about, the Jap bikes don't compare to the KTM or the GG. The $ you save buying Jap will be spent upgrading them just to keep up with your buddies. Good luck.

 

[ktm033]

200 exc, yes, perfect, I absolutely love mine!!!!;)

 

[bud]

Rmduster, I have actually ridden the bikes in question (Have you?). Imo, the "jap bikes" compared well to the 200exc, where I test rode them (tight woods). I didn't mind the ktm, but there was no particular aspect of its performance that blew me away. Not that I'm saying ktms are overhyped or anything like that :p.

If I was in the market for a small bore 2 stroke, a 200 exc would be a definite possibility, just because it's more versatile than a 125.

 

[Lemming]

Hey Mick - you ever ride an EC200? I own an EC and have ridden the EXC. You are correct that the EXC is lighter (a bored 125) but it doesn't turn nearly as well.

Lightfoot, ride both, then decide. They are both great bikes.

 

[GlennP]

Second that Lemming. Some guys should really ride the bikes in real technical woods terrain before influencing a new buyer. I've owned a KTM 200EXC, and my GG XC250 will out turn it, no problem. Also, the KTM vibrates much more at high revs, and this has a definate effect on rider fatigue and arm pump. Yes, the GG 200 frame is the same as the 250, but it is a smaller frame to start with. Somewhere between the KTM 200 and 250/300/380 frames in overall size.

Lightfoot,

Thats what makes the bikes so good for small to average riders. For your size, you can't beat the combination of ergos, steering, and power delivery. At 5'7", you can even eaisly drop the ride height about 3/4" with different pull rods if you like.

 

[Offroadr]

Originally posted by drz mick

GG haven't quite got the build quality and reliability cracked yet.

Thats an uneducated reponse, look like you need to read up more.

 

[MN KDXer]

I rode a GG200 and a KTM 200 this past weekend. Keep in mind, my bike is an RM250, I am a bit bigger sized (5-11, 180#) and I ride in the tight woods.

01GG- nice suspension (Well, I think it has potential anyways, but it was set waaaay wrong, IMO), the power is kinda goofy; NOT particularly strong top end power compared to the kid's 01 RM125. The GG's power is like a 125 which hits a couple grand lower and shuts down that much lower in the rpms. Handling is good for me, as it feels full size. Seat = brick.

K200 (w/ FMF exhaust)- MUCH nicer power than the GG; stronger down low and all the way thru. Vibrates very noticeably, though. It feels smallish for me + steers sorta weird due to strange ergos. If I slide too far up on the tank to where I should be for good cornering, there is no room left to steer. This may be a good thing for a person smaller than me. Seat is not too bad, in terms of stiffness. Quite heavy clutch pull for a 200.

Brakes are sorta weak on both bikes compared to either RM.

My 200A rider son, (5-10 & 150#) thought it like this- in anything faster than 1st gear, his RM125 is without question, the bike of choice. The RM is lighter, more top end power, better steering, much better suspension. (TrakControl revalved suspension, and 7oz Steahly weight, btw) For slower stuff, the Euro bikes would be somewhat better, the KTM has better engine, but the GG has better chassis for taller folks. Of course, the RM lacks all the enduro fare.

Any of those bikes will be better than the KDX for fast paced stuff, btw.

Hope this helps.

 

[ktm033]

sent the 00 RM 250 to the showers, got a 01 200 exc. Things got much better in the woods with the change. Added an FMF gnarly pipe with TC2 silencer. Perfect......don't miss the RM, at all.

 

[lawman]

i'm on my 2d ktm 200 exc, a 2000 model. i use it for enduros, hare scrambles, trail riding. 6' 210lbs. i've had to modify it for my size & weight. it goes like stink. i've ridden a '99 g-g 200ec & numerous g-g 250s. my .02: the ktm is stone reliable, no problems in 1 1/2 years of racing & riding. stock, it's a little pipey, but it makes serious power--it'll embarass 250s. it also shakes like a paint mixer, the gear ratios are a little weird, & turning it in tight terrain with the stock 20mm offset clamps can be a problem for some. the g-g seems a little more handmade--maybe not quite the fit 'n finish of the ktm, but good enough. fewer trick aftermarket doodads available. the 1 i rode had a little less peak power, but more low end & it's smoother--depends on what you like. it vibrates way les. its handling is awesome. g-g bikes are turning up more & more at enduros around my area (deep south of usa) & people seem to love them. i am seriously considering 1 for my next bike. i think you really can't go wrong with either bike, it's just a matter of preference.

 

[Girlrider]

I have owned both in the past 2 years and I would always go with the Gas Gas. The bike is reliable, contrary to what some may say, has no vibration, is a great race bike and is a lot more fun than the KTM ever was. I have had both the GG200 and the GG250 and I prefer the 250. I race in Colorado so altitude takes away some of the power so that is why I ride the 250. The suspension is superior to the KTM and with some minor modifications it is great! My husband would not ride my GG. He just thought I liked it because it was different even though I told him that was not the case. Then when I got my new 250 he decided that my Gas Gas 200 would be newer than his 99 KTM so he sold the KTM and kept the Gas Gas. He did not get to ride it much and then after the first race he said. "I knew I would either love it or hate it and now I know why you love it." He said it was so much easier to ride than the KTM and handled great in sand, whoops, tight turns, hills, etc. . . We both race the A class in the RMEC. I say go with GG because you WILL like it better. Besides, look at the national results and you will see a lot more people riding GG and placing in the top 10.

 

[Lightfoot]

I made my decision. I gotta be me and that means different.

I rode many KTM's and just rode a GG 300XC saturday and was on a GG 250 XC today. The GG wins hands down for me. The bike is smoother with super broad powerband, excellent low end. The ergos were perfect for me on the 250, the guy was my size and had it set up accordingly and I could actually touch the ground with both feet. He has a 200 XC which is the bike for me. And as for dealer support they are both great, the KTM dealer has been around forever and I consider him friend. The GG dealer is new but I've known him for some time and he's out to do a good job.
Now I have to convince my wife I NEED a new bike.

Thanks everyone for your advice.

Scott

 

[Offroadr]

Originally posted by MN KDXer
. Seat = brick.

Thats interesting, I was amazed at the plush seats on both of my GasGas's. I was happy that I didn't happy that I didn't have to buy new seat foam like I have always had to on my jap bikes.

Here is a review by Trailrider magazine. I couldn't find the one article where they tested the year old National Enduro teams bike. That was a great article on the reliability of the bikes.

http://www.trailrider.com/story.php3?id=2

Patman.. We still have that 4 page thread on the KTM/GG issue? That was a GOOD one :)

 

[Magoo]

Scott- I stayed out of this, since you know which bike I ride;) . I also have never ridden the GG, and I look forward to trying one out, I've heard many positive comments like yours. I'm certain you'll be happy with your choice ( and I look forward to trying to keep up with you!).
But, I feel you made an unfair comment:

And as for dealer support, I'm much more comfortable with the GG dealer. I've know him for along time and he goes out of his way to support his customers. He's much more knowledgeable as far as suspension setup and such. The other dealer is so high volume there is very little service, parts take forever to get and there is little setup help.

I know and like both of the dealers you're referring to. The GG dealer is a great guy, and he will do really well with his new venture. I think he will give you the service you expect. But the other dealer you mention IS also a good dealer to work with. I've received LOTS of help with my bike, service, and setup. I'm sure he's tired of all the ridiculous questions and discussions I come up with! He's had the majority of parts I manage to break IN STOCK, and even loaned me a pipe to use, no charge, when I sent mine out to be repaired (he could have just sold me a new one...). I'd hardly call him "high volume" when they almost always have bikes left to sell at the end of the season. He's also been an important supporter of our sport, and has done quite a bit to support our local club over the years (AND the owner of the GG dealership has been a member of the club for many years, as well).
I'm not saying one or the other is "Better," only that both, I feel, are good dealers, and that in my experience, your comments were not accurate. I understand that you are more comfortable with one versus the other; I think that is fine.

 

[Lightfoot]

Your're right Magoo. He didn't deserve that. NZ has been very good to me, and I've always trusted him. Almost feel like I'm doing something wrong buying a new bike somewhere else. I've wished I could have retracted that post after I let it go. My sincerest apologizes.

And as far as you keeping up with me, yeah right. I don't think the bike is going to make me that much faster. I don't know if I even want to ride that much faster. We rode saturday on the same loop as wednesday and I couldn't do anything right. Had a little collision with my boys and the gas cap that took awhile to recover from. Huge gas cap on the KDX.

Might go tomorrow night if everything works out right. Might even have the new GG.
I hope NZ will still talk to me.

Ride safe
Scott

 

[orion163]

where is this gg dealership you guys are referring to?
I didnt even know there was one around here.

BTW I like dealing with Z's, they are always helpful and willing to offer advice. I dont care what anybody says about the place, when i buy my next bike it will be through them.