when will 2t be back?

[HubertGarfunkleIII]

so when do you guys think the 2t will be back? 5,10,15,20 years?

 

[Rich Rohrich]

so when do you guys think the 2t will be back? 5,10,15,20 years?

I have it penciled in for two weeks after the sun burns out. :whoa:

 

[BSWIFT]

I have it penciled in for two weeks after the sun burns out. :whoa:

Rich, I'm glad that I'm getting a bet hamstred. I might just have spit something on the monitor.:yikes:
But for know, I need to watch which blonde will be next years Miss SX.

 

[Bakemono]

why in the snowmobile world did yamaha scrap the 2t,but in mx is still throwing out 125's?

Emissions. Yamaha felt that it would be smarter to switch to 4-stroke sleds instead of trying to make clean 2-strokes now and if then in the future when they couldnt meet emissions having to come out with 4-strokes.
When and if it comes to be that FI 2-strokes cant meet emissions, Yamaha is going to have a big advantage over the other snowmobile manufacturers who chose to try to make FI 2-strokes work.
Yamaha has clean 2-stroke technology in their outboard boat motors, so its not as if they couldnt come out with clean 2-strokes. They just felt that they would be wiser to just go 4-stroke now.
A 4-stroke in a snowmobile really doesnt cornern me because snowmobiles operate in such clean air that rebuilds really arent a concern. The engine will pretty much outlast the chassis that its put in. Its not at all uncommon for a Yamaha RX-1, Apex or Vector to have well over 10,000 miles on it and the motor runs just like new. Even the Phazer (which uses an engine that is pretty much 2 YZ 250F motors put together) is a great little motor that runs very nice. I had concerns about that motor when that sled first came out. I actually had an '07 Phazer FX on order last year, but I ended up cancelling it after I read all some posts on dirtbike forums of people who had durability issues with their 250Fs. I still kinda kick myself for not buying that sled. I test rode one this past winter and its a really nice, fun little sled.
In MX emissions arent really a concern because those bikes are made for closed-course competition only. 4-stroke MX bikes arent very clean-burning either.

 

[XRpredator]

Nobody is making you ride a four stroke

there, somebody finally said it.

Now quit yer whinin' you two stroke luddites.

 

[76GMC1500]

I find it odd that Yamaha would switch to the 4-stroke for emissions reasons and not develop their DFI. Yamaha is one of the few manufacturers who is still making 2-strokes outboard motors. They've already put a lot of money into research and development. Emissions aren't going to be the downfall of the DFI 2-stroke, either. They already qualify for very low emissions standards. The downfall of the DFI 2-stroke will be the boutique oils they require which have recently tripled in price for the outboard segment. On another note, while 2-stroke motors cost significantly less, they "generally" don't last as long as their 4-stroke counterparts. Sleds and outboarsd both have utilitarian uses where longevity nad toughness might be more important that specific power output.

 

[RedBull]

about that 350cc rule the AMA is thinking about.... with sooo much money spent by almost every bike MFG. in the 450cc class the amount of pressure on the AMA to drop it has got to be huge. I dont see it happening anytime soon. Even though im a two stroke fan and would like to see some fairness with the displacment rules although I think its too little to late.

 

[Bakemono]

Sleds and outboarsd both have utilitarian uses where longevity nad toughness might be more important that specific power output.

Most snowmobile engines last 8,000-10,000 miles before they need a rebuild and Ive never heard of anyone having to do a topend rebuild on an outboard motor, so IMO thats not a signifigant factor.
I think in the case of Yamaha's snowmobiles, they knew they would need to come out with new, better 2-strokes to stay competitive and they just figured it would be smarter to just go 4-stroke now and be fairly confident they would be OK with the emission regs rathar that to have to develop clean 2-strokes now and then maybe have to develop high-output 4-stroke sleds in 10-15 years.
Besides, Yamaha already had great 4-stroke bike motors and they adapted that technology to use in a snowmobile. The RX-1 used a version of the R1's motor and the Phazer uses an engine that is essentially 2 YZ 250F motors put together.
The other snowmobile manufacuters really dont have exisiting 4-stroke technology that can compare to what Yamaha has, so for them it made more sense to make clean 2-strokes because they are pretty much starting out with a clean slate either way.
I personally would have liked to have seen Yamaha keep the 2-strokes around because not everyone wants a 4-stroke, but from a business sense I can see why they did things the way they did.

 

[BadgerMan]

Demand is higher for four strokes and the margins are better for those manufacturing and selling them.....more parts content and more replacement part business. I am guessing that KTM may be the only company marketing two strokes in five years and they will own that market.

Personally, I like them both for different reasons. It's great to have a choice......we may not have a choice for much longer.

 

[XRpredator]

. . . nad toughness might be more important . . .

I've always felt that nad toughness is important

 

[76GMC1500]

about that 350cc rule the AMA is thinking about.... with sooo much money spent by almost every bike MFG. in the 450cc class the amount of pressure on the AMA to drop it has got to be huge. I dont see it happening anytime soon. Even though im a two stroke fan and would like to see some fairness with the displacment rules although I think its too little to late.

I can think of two manufacturers who wouldn't want a 350 rule to go through, but I can think of two others who might. Kawasaki and Honda are at the top of the pack right now, and probably don't want any changes so they can stay there. But, Yamaha and KTM are hardly making a presence anymore and anything to mix things up could swing things in their favor. Yamaha and KTM both have strong 2-strokes.