Which MC FActory has the best "works" suspension.

Jeremy Wilkey

Owner, MX-Tech
Jan 28, 2000
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Here's the best I could get of DV's Yamaha The Works YZ's are trick and simple in apperance. I've heard it said that the bike has a revalvable clyinder valve!

In the mid nineteys the shocks surely ran a piston still resivor but it looks like the team has gone back to a bladder design.
 

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John Curea

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Feb 29, 2000
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Jeremy
I was wondering the same about the international patent laws. What I gather is that patent laws within Japan are very strict, I dont believe there is a year limit.
Honda even has the way the front brake line is routed to the master cylinder patented, alot of riders (including the factory race teams) change the routing to shorten the total length of brake line.
KTM bikes come this way from the factory, which leads me to believe that the patent laws dont stretch to Austria. I am sure it is also a big plus for manufactoring motorcycles outside of Japan, a company like KTM could be more liberal in producing the style of motorcycle with the features they want without worrying about the competitors patent laws.
 
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spanky250

Mod Ban
Dec 10, 2000
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Originally posted by KXVET#207
Honda even has the way the front brake line is routed to the master cylinder patented, alot of riders (including the factory race teams) change the routing to shorten the total length of brake line.
.
Honda even has a patent on the triangle axle stand in Japan. That is why all the other Japanese stands have something that makes them not quite a true triangle.
 

HONDA65

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Mar 4, 2000
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After watching numerious races on the tube, I'd give my vote to Windam's Showa's. I've always been a big fan of KYB's, but to me his bike looks like it handles the rough stuff the best. Could likage design have any thing to do with this? The Honda's do look skittish, and I don't know if its suspension setup, linkage design,or the aluminum chassis(or D. all of the above).
 

FMX_novice

Member
Jan 5, 2001
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Its strange how KTM's WP suspension is the worst rated stock suspension but the vote leader of modified suspension...
I could not imagine riding Ricky Carmichaels bike, it looks like the bike just bounces around underneath him uncontrollably thru braking bumps and rought terrain. Remember his near wreck on that downhill at glen helen? He was probobly doing 80 miles an hour when the rear of the bike bounces off the ground about 2 feet up and the back of the bike swings to the lock on the clamps, bounces again to the other lock and does this back and forth about 8 times. It looks like reverse headshake or something. His bike is messed up, thats probobly why he is supposedly going to sign with Honda who has some decent suspension and a big budget motor.
 

Greg in Oz

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Aug 21, 2001
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I had the privilege of getting my hands on Mac's bike while he was out here for the Melbourne SX and shooting for his vid. The bike was a stock '02 YZ with his works forks and shock. Bouncing it showed the difference between us mortals and the real pros. I weigh 275 lbs and I couldn't move the forks past 1/3 travel. They don't hit a wall there but the resistance stiffens up. It's not the kind of harsh change you feel on a stock set with SX damping, more of a controlled shift to a different valving. They're very plush and stiction free in the first part of the stroke. Same feel at the rear and the shock has two more adjusters on the reservoir apart from the slotted and hex adjusters for hi/low compression damping. There are two other concentric rings around the outside of the usual adjusters. They have holes for pins to fit in that must mate with a special tool. Dunno what they do though. Mac said he'd sell us the forks for US$40 grand but couldn't put a price on the shock. Incidentally, he was doing runs through a set of 30 sharp edged 4ft high whoops flat in 4th and the back of the bike moved about 9 inches.
 

JPrelude

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Apr 17, 2000
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Watching pastrana wheelie through whoop sections is pretty impressive. His rear wheel never seems to leave the dirt. Can't say I know much about it though
 

B. Farlow

Member
Aug 31, 2001
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I belive RC runs his suspension 2" shorter. I bet it has some crazy dampning curves for the type of riding he does (xx aggresive). I also bet this contributes to some of his suspension problems, I feel at the speed of RC shorter stuff just wont due...
 

FMX_novice

Member
Jan 5, 2001
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The spring creek race made RC's suspension look good, he was riding with the same level of insanity but his bike seemed like it stuck to the ground better, he even sed in the post-race interview that he had done some suspension testing and had Kawasaki make a lot of changes and it worked a lot better then for the rest of they year. I think they should make the 250 class competitive again and make Ricky have a mountain bike suspension, or put a 120lb pull spring on his throttle.
 

marcusgunby

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Jan 9, 2000
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Tortellis bike seems off

I just watched the penultimate round of the nationals and the more i watch tort bike the more im convinced the suspension could be improved-im not saying the suspension was to balme for his BIG one but i think it was a factor.His bike always looks skittierish and unsettled.Im sure his riding style doesnt help(looks very rigid) but i think he needs to try something new(in terms of setup).Maybe he should bolt up Windhams rear end to the Honda-his bike (suspensioni)s the best IMO.When tortelli was on KX in the GPs he looked a better rider.
 

Onore GT

Member
Feb 20, 2001
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One thing no one has thrown into the mix yet is that ultimately it is the riders choice what they are going to run. If somebody tells you your bike looks like it has 100mm of travel in the back but you just won your moto by 15+ seconds, you are probably not going to care too much what they have to say until you start loosing. Jeremy said after Las Vegas SX that his bike was 100% better after testing all week. Ricky made a similar comment after Milleville I think. That made me think they had been running the same setup (or close to it) for some time. The guys in the shop want to make strives every week and keep busy, but they can only make changes if they are allowed.
 

Mark Hammond

Member
Apr 6, 2000
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After reading all your replies to this thread here are some of mine.
I have watched the US supercross and nationals on TV and come to the conclusion that
1 RCs bike handles poorly and is way to rigid on the rear its only the rider getting the results.
2 Mcgraths bike like you say is good through woops and jumps but very por through flat turns.Could be the rider?
3Windhams bike looks very good but I think is a little soft on the rear especially outdoors were sometimes his cornering looks slow.
4Langston and browns bike look preet much the same very good.
5Pastranas bike I think dosen't look great,especially under braking on hard pack tracks.
In Europe the best handling bikes are from Michael Pichon and Stefen Everts and they both have KYB suspension on their bikes,Pichons has pressurised forks.

Alot of these riders we have talked about are extremly smooth like Pichon,Everts ,Windham and Mcgrath so they can make agood bike seem great.

Carmicheal and tortelli and chargeras and will ride through anything or anyone to get the job done but I think that RC is out of control alot of the time and its just his desire and strength thats gets him through his bike definetly handles the worst.

Mark Hammond
 

Jeremy Wilkey

Owner, MX-Tech
Jan 28, 2000
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Mark,
RC's suspension is so rigid in that it is constantly packed up right? He must run at least 6 inches of rider sag..

Regards,

Jer
 

Mark Hammond

Member
Apr 6, 2000
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Hi Jer
I heard RCs bike has had some mods to the sub frame as he is such a short ass but maybe the shock has been shortened or he has a different link as his bike looks weird in appearence ,very low .I had a problem with a kid some years ago in that he was really fast but he was so short ,this was on a KX60 and it was lowered so he could touch the ground but the shock would bottom out easily. I built him an ohlins for this bike but it was alot of trouble getting it right so maybe RC has a similar problem. Shortening the shock will bring up the linkage into a stiffer part but if he has no travel then they have to make the shock so stiff so as not to bottom.

Mark
 

John Curea

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Feb 29, 2000
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This thread really has my interest.............

I think it calls for a mandatory attendence at Anahiem #1 for further investigation :cool:
 

tbevy

Member
Nov 8, 2001
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Well, I think that K dubs Suzuk works pretty good, and I agree that little Rickys bike is bizare, But as far as who has the best factory suspension...who knows! I never rode a works bike, I would assume that the factory stuff works equaly better than the stock stuff..... But they all still use the same basic design, so can one really work that much better than the other? The world may never know.
Tom B T1 Racing
 

Sage

dirtbike riding roadracer
Mar 28, 2001
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"One thing no one has thrown into the mix yet is that ultimately it is the riders choice what they are going to run"

This is one of the biggest deals here, Maybe RC like's riding a jackhammer and won't feel right on a softer bike? If your rider tells you that it’s too soft or too hard and can back up the changes with faster times then ???

I know this is road racing related, but it’s a good point to bring up -

In 99 at Road Atlanta Yates & Chandler switch 750's, Yates likes his bike set up like a jackhammer & Chandler likes the soft & plush ride, both guys are = most of the time as far as times go. They ride each other’s bikes for about 10 laps and come in with the same thought - "I don't know how that guy goes so fast on that bike, it feels like crap!"

Kawasaki would send us WSB valving specs to try out and DC couldn't ride it because it was way to harsh and AY couldn't ride it because it was too soft?

Is there really "perfect suspension"? Never, because nobody is the same, different people feel different things. Even if it looks wrong on tape and all the data shows it could be better if your rider doesn’t like it, they won't have the confidence they need to go fast.

Back on topic - Not sure which one I'd vote for? all have good aspects and bad. For every day service I'd have to say Kayaba and / or WP, the pisser about WP is all the little bs tools needed to service them.
 

tbevy

Member
Nov 8, 2001
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Sage, You make a very good point, It's the riders "personality" that really detremines how his bikes suspension works.

I've ridden bikes that I thought was really really bad, but the owner thought it was the way too go, Oh well life goes on!!

Tommy B T1 racing:D
 

JTT

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Aug 25, 2000
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Sage, that is an excellent point. One of the "keys" to a factory ride is that it is tailored precisely to the rider (or at least in theory :D ). This will be the "great challenge" for the Honda guys with RC, and apparently one of the reasons he is there now.

What years did you work for Muzzy? I have a buddy who worked on Doug's 600 in, I think 1999.
 
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