bclapham

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Nov 5, 2001
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OK guys, who has got the subtanks?? and how do they work on the Showas? ive heard the effect isnt as dramatic on these forks, so i wonder if its worth having a look at them for my RM250.

Also, what brands of subtanks have people tried? The Enzo ones certainly look cool, and he was the first guy to market them.

But the TooTech system also looks good, it sounds like he has made them with a one way check valve so they dont effect rebound????

any others out there?

http://www.enzoracing.com/service.html

http://www.tootechracing.com/Too Tech Air Tank Advantages.htm

also, whats the deal with taking them off the bike when selling? do the fork caps need to be drilled????
 

Chili

Lifetime Sponsor - Photog Moderator
Apr 9, 2002
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Bruce, LazyBoy ran the TooTech system on his Showas on the 03 125 last season and we will be putting it on his 05 once we get it broken in. It is very hard to tell you that the tank alone made a huge difference because at the same time as the tank we had the springs changed and both ends revalved. The person who runs TooTech Canada lives in the same city we do and is one of Troy's sponsors (disclaimer so all facts are on the table). I know several people who went with the TooTech system last season and the only ones who weren't real happy were a couple of the 04 Yamaha's but those guys never did find anything that made the 04 Yammies work they way they wanted. I'm not a great tuner by any means but I feel fairly certain that Troy had as good or better suspension than anyone in his class last season. The fork caps do need to be drilled, when we traded the 03 in the connectors were just replaced with a schraeder valve so the new owner can use it as an air bleed. The other nice thing with the TooTech system is that you don't need to remove the tanks at the end of each day and drain the oil back into the tanks like you do with the Enzo's, just bleed off the air and you're set.
 

Rcannon

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Nov 17, 2001
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Bruce, I now have about 20 hours on my Too Tech sub Tank. At first I was not too happy about the place it mounted to. The mounting has caused no problems at all. I prefer the look of the enzo tanks, but mine works just fine.

After riding the bike, I could care less how it looks.

This story has to go back to last August. I had set my forks up as specified in Eric's Book. They felt ok, but I was not getting full travel. I dropped the oil level. At 105mm the fork felt excellent. Eric recommended 90mm, but I felt like I had this figured out. The 90mm oil level made the forks feel rather harsh and uncomfortable. BAM! I hit the last woop hard. A broken wrist was my first clue that maybe my forks were not perfect. The bike was going up for sale.

I decided to try a subtank.
I called Rick Johnson at Too Tech and he sent me a tank setup. This gave me time to fins my 1/8 NPT tap as well as the correct bit. The drilling and tapping were no big deal. I then bolted the tank on. I brought the oil level back to 90mm as I shoudl have dont in the first place.

A few weeks ago I went back to the same woop section. Riding around the track I noticed the fork responding to the small stuff. The bike felt comfortable...almost trailbike like. I silently thought..I'm screwed when I hit the woops. I hit the front brake hard for a right hand corner. The front end dropped just the perfect amoint..nice! I charged at the whoop and hit it....no bottoming. I was thrilled.

I believe you can get by without the tank. I believe you coudl tune the fork to handle anything you want. With the tank I can make the fork do anything I want it to do easily. The air valves are super sensative. Three turns out and the bike feels like a trail bike. At one turn out it feels stiff.

Its like being able to adjust the oil level while you ride. The air valves give you controll over the level. Overall, it was one of the best products I have bought for my bike.

Your starting with decent forks in the first place. Obviously, the tanks will not make as big of a difference in them. Mine sucked and were dangerous before I started.
 

bclapham

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Nov 5, 2001
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thanks guys, infact i guy i know has his pic on the tootech website- lots of guys i know rave about his work.

It would be interesting to hear from any tuners also- when they setup a bike, do they alter that stack around having the tanks or not, or they run the same stack and the tank is like a bolt on extra???
 

NO HAND

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Jun 21, 2000
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bclapham said:
...But the TooTech system also looks good, it sounds like he has made them with a one way check valve so they dont effect rebound????...
Jeremy talked about the check valve a while ago and explained how the systems equiped with a check valve are not as good in braking bumps.
 

bclapham

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Nov 5, 2001
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But is Jeremy saying that because he tested the other tanks, or sells the Enzo ones? :)

here is something from the too tech website that talks about the tanks without a check valve could pack.

FUNCTION This is really important guys!!
· The air bottle principal depends upon restricting the airflow into the bottle. All current bottles use an adjustable orifice that limits airflow in both directions. This means that the air that flows into the bottle slowly, also leaves the bottle slowly. Because the air returns to the forks slowly, current bottles tend to cause slow rebound and make the forks pack and feel dead.

· The Too Tech Air Tank uses a pneumatic device called a ‘flow control valve’. A flow control valve has an adjustable orifice to control the air going into the tank, and a check valve to allow free flow of the air back out of the tank. This guarantees that the forks rebound at the same speed regardless of how much air has transferred into the Air Tank. This insures they do not pack or feel dead.
 

Chili

Lifetime Sponsor - Photog Moderator
Apr 9, 2002
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Bruce I know when Troy's bike was done we opted to have it revalved. Our guy had tons of suspension experience prior to becoming the TooTech Canada distributor but I'm fairly certain he mentioned the valving specs came directly from Rick.
 

mx_361

Member
Oct 14, 2004
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Go to **** and do a search for FVO Tanks. They are carbon fiber, use a one way flow control and use screw in adaptors so that you do not have to drill your forks. I have heard some people say that you can't get the right flow out of the forks unless you drill them but my buddy has a set of enzo tanks on his CRF and the ID of the brass plugs they use is only a 1/2mm larger. I have a set on my 05 RM250 and they kick ass. Big difference in braking bumps and very tunable. They use urathane tubing with push in connectors rather than bulky steel lines and it is a super light set up.
 

mx_361

Member
Oct 14, 2004
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Nope. These bleed themselves because the flow control is located at the bottom of the tank. So on every upstroke any oil deposited in the bottom gets sucked back into the fork. And the air bleeds are push button. No tools needed and no need to ever take them off. Compared directly with the enzo tanks, I like these better.
 

NO HAND

~SPONSOR~
Jun 21, 2000
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I saw the FVO tank system on egay and am so impressed, this guy managed to solve all the problems there was with the old systems availlable... accumulated oil bleeds back to the fork automatically, and no need to butcher fork caps anymore. Very impressing. The price is stiff though.
 

bclapham

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Nov 5, 2001
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NO HAND said:
The price is stiff though.

LOL- yeah, if they had a shop nearby with cool stickers and SoCal streed cred, i would pay that much for them. But, there is something about spending $300 on egay that doesnt feel right, LOL.

taking the check valve out of the equation with the Enzo tanks, i am wondering if spending the extra $100 over the TooTech setup is worth it for not having to butcher the fork caps.
 

marcusgunby

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Jan 9, 2000
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well with my testing there is no way you can get enough flow from the std bleed hole, it ends up about 2.5mm. I am making a set with 1/8 bsp pipe work and it has a hole about 4.5mm.A 2.5mm hole restricts even when you blow down it.
 

Chili

Lifetime Sponsor - Photog Moderator
Apr 9, 2002
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bclapham said:
i am wondering if spending the extra $100 over the TooTech setup is worth it for not having to butcher the fork caps.

I never really worried about that, we just replaced the mount with a schraeder valve for an airbleed. The dealer sold our trade in before it made it into the shop to be prepped for sale so they didn't find it a big deal either. Just picked up LazyBoy's 05 stuff today, hope to get it together tonight.
 

mx_361

Member
Oct 14, 2004
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Mine seems to work fine on the bike. I seem to have plenty of adjustability. After playing around for a few hours I setted on 5 turns out on the valve. I am going to play around with my fork oil some too. Tinkering is part of the fun. The forks on this RM seem to be getting softer and softer as they break in and the oil breaks down. Hey bclapham, how has your suspension done? I went to a 5.4 on the shock and everything seems balanced out real good but just to soft on both ends now that I have some time on the bike. May be my 195 pound ass too. :)

PS. Ever pull your bleed screw out and sit on the bike? That is quite a bit of flow! Maybe you can get a bit more with the brass fittings but if the screw in stuff works why bother?
 

bclapham

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Nov 5, 2001
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well, at 220lbs, i was running a 5.5 rear and 0.45 or 0.46 fronts. The shock is good, i stiffened up the low speed valving a bit.

on the forks, i am at a total loss, i could never get them to go through braking bumps well- i kept valving them softer, but then the forks are way too soft everywhere else.

i just found out ive put a bunch more weight on, so i think my recent results are a bit off. I am gonna get back to the gym and then rethink my valving. I like the idea of the subtank since it seems it adds a lot of adjustability from track to track.
 

mx_361

Member
Oct 14, 2004
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Your right about that. It almost acts like a fine tuning of the LS compression on the forks but it effects bottoming less. It deffinetly has its own "feel" to it. I know what you mean about breaking bumps and the forks. I didn't think it was that big of deal untill Sunday. I went to a race down in TN and the track got real beat up. As it turned our I was the last moto of the day when the track was at its roughest. I blew off of the track twice because the bike was shaking it's head so bad. Time for a revalve and maybe a respring! I have been thinking of sending it to RG3. Any thoughts?
 

bclapham

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Nov 5, 2001
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RG3, factory connection and MB1 are all the big names that are supposed to be good with the showas.
 

Rcannon

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Nov 17, 2001
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PS. Ever pull your bleed screw out and sit on the bike? That is quite a bit of flow! Maybe you can get a bit more with the brass fittings but if the screw in stuff works why bother?[/QUOTE]


Thats a great point. There is a ton of air that moves.

The thought of removing the tanks and having a 100% stock bike is also cool.
 

MXGOON

Member
May 13, 2005
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I have a set of the FVO tanks. I really like them a lot. I have had the Tootech and the enzos before. I always had some complaints about how they worked from time to time. I think the extra volume of the enzos worked better than the tootechs, but I hate the way the enzos performance decays as you ride. Jeremy Wilkey told me that the oil didn't accumulate fast enough to make a difference, but I was draining out about 5-10cc of oil each moto. The tootechs drain back into the forks witch is great. But, I had a hard time getting them to work as well. I always liked the looks of the enzos, which is why I looked at the FVO tanks. When I got them, I was worried about how they would work compared to the others. The track I first rode on with the FVOs, was a rutted choppy mess. This track has quite a few large jumps that created bottoming problems with the other systems. I followed the FVO setup instructions and they worked very well. So well, I'm not quite sure why no one has done this before.
I measured the I.D. of the enzo fork fittings and it was 3.0mm. The FVO fitting was 2.5mm. So I don't think it is as big of a difference as people think. The quality is way better than the tootech system, and just as good as the enzo system. The FVO tanks are lighter than both systems, and the price is within a few bucks of the others with all the extras. But, it is less than the enzos.

I am very satisfied.

P.S. The brackets fit a lot tighter than the enzos, cause the carbon fiber is thicker on the brackets.
 
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