Who's property is it?

gospeedracer · Feb 20, 2002

I guess this question would most likely be directed to any lawyers in the group.

Here's the sitch. A few weeks ago some people from our Web Design dept asked me and a couple other people to model for some pictures they want to use on the web site for one of our products. I didn't really want to do it but they said I would be saving the company aprox. 3K and I didn't want to appear to not be a team player.........
Anyway, they took 3 rolls of 36 exposure film of just me. I was suppose to sign some contract, I believe giving them permission to use the images, but I have yet to do so. I haven't even really gotten to see the pictures but aparently everyone else in the freaking company has!
I'm leaving the company soon and I'm curious about who technically owns the rights to my images. I'm not looking to be a PITA or anything, but I'm looking to use the fact that I wasn't compensated anything as leverage with regard to some non vested stock. If I don't have any rights to the pics then it's not worth even bringing it up but if I can use it in my favor I might give it a shot.
Any thoughts about this?

Okiewan · Feb 20, 2002

Nothing you can do until they publish them. You agreed to have your pics taken, but have nothing in place to allow for public use of them. Do you have anything in writting, saved them 3k, etc.?

Patman · Feb 20, 2002

My navigator believes that since the contract was not signed prior to the pictures you may be S.O.L. unless the company is willing to work with you now on good faith.

gospeedracer · Feb 20, 2002

Grrr, another person (who is working on the project) just came up and asked if I've seen the mock up! NO!! I'm getting a bit miffed because they told me I would have final say and would be involved in the selection process. While nothing has actually officially been posted yet it would appear they are pretty much ready to go with the new page.
I did ask if they would please burn a CD with ALL the images. We'll see if I can at least get that.
It's probably not that big a deal but I just feel like I need to cover my ass a for some reason. I know I'm an employee and all but it kind of irks me that I "saved them over 3K" yet I didn't get a damn thing. They had to pay for the images that are on the site now, but hey why pay for it if we can get Aimee to do it for free! :silly: I would be a happy camper if they would agree to let me purchase my remaining non vested shares when I leave. I guess I was stupid not to bring it up before I agreed to help out. :ugg:

KTMhornmono · Feb 20, 2002

Property

From what I have been trained in web design school, the photographer looks to own the intellectual rights to the pictures. Even though you are the subject, the photog is the one who has the copyright to the pics. I believe it would be standard for a "model" to sign a contract that compensates them for the images, or specifically excludes them from possession. I may be about to start a similar suit myself for a site I built for my previous company, in which I was given a raise to do web work but never waived/sold my rights to the coding. Neither of us foresaw a problem if we parted company and we had no experience in it, but hopefully your company did not "forget" to give you a contract to sign so as it may help themselves. I am looking into a good intellectual rights lawyer, and can let you know if anything interesting pops up..

yota · Feb 20, 2002

I'm not an expert but I thought a photog had to get a signed model release to publish.

VintageDirt · Feb 20, 2002

And where, may I ask, are these photographs going to appear.:)

I likes pichurs:confused:

Okiewan · Feb 20, 2002

I'm not an expert but I thought a photog had to get a signed model release to publish.

That is correct.

XRpredator · Feb 20, 2002

Originally posted by VintageDirt
I likes pichurs:confused:

Leave it to VD to say what we're all thinkin'! ;)

gospeedracer · Feb 20, 2002

Originally posted by yota
I'm not an expert but I thought a photog had to get a signed model release to publish.

Well, yhey've made no mention of the form I was suppose to sign since the day of the shoot and it's pretty much ready to go. They've got a beta version of it running. I'm not even sure what it was they wanted me to sign. Should I bring it up? :think

I was told they didn't scan all the negatives and it would take aprox 10 minutes per image to scan, but that I could have a copy of the negatives if I wanted. I feel like I'm being a pain. I don't really care about the pics, what the hell would I do with 108 pictures of myself?! :scream: I was just hoping I could get my unvested options out of it but I'm too chicken to ask. :ugg:

EBOD · Feb 20, 2002

My understanding is that the photographer will own the copyright. However, some states, including California I believe, have right of publicity laws that can protect the people photographed. Generally, the person in a photograph would have to give permission before the photograph could be used for commercial purposes. I do not know if the permission must be in writing or what the exceptions to the rule may be.

I am not an intellectual property attorney and I am not familar with the particulars of your situation. Thus, you should take my thoughts for what they are worth (nothing) and, if you are feeling taken advantage of, you should talk to a qualified lawyer.

gospeedracer · Feb 20, 2002

Originally posted by XRpredator
Leave it to VD to say what we're all thinkin'! ;)

Oh geez, I don't work for Penthouse! They're just pics of me sitting behind a computer posing as tech support.
Although I do have to admit I'm slightly curious to see ALL the pictures simply because, well.... let's just say I was having some blouse issues and I think I scared the guy taking the pictures once. I was 'adjusting' before one pic and he stepped back a bit and said "whoa, I don't think they want THOSE kind of pictures!" :scream: I turned 15 shades of red and wanted to crawl under the table! I just want to be sure there aren't any uh, weird pics in the batch. I guess that's why I'm a bit bothered that so many people in the company got to see them when I haven't! :whiner:

NVR FNSH · Feb 20, 2002

Originally posted by gospeedracer

said "whoa, I don't think they want THOSE kind of pictures!"

They may not but we do:) Who needs geeky tech support pictures when I've ridden behind GSR in her Saharas:p

I'm kidding Eddie, I really am.

Brian

longtime · Feb 20, 2002

I don't know if there's a statutory protection applicable to models only. If not, you're out of luck under general contract law principles -- you agreed to let them take these pictures, and even if not explicitly, you implicitly gave them the right to use them for commercial purposes (as you knew that's what was intended). One thing in your favor, though, is that your agreement was conditioned on their giving you final say on the choice of images. If that's the case, then it's simple: no final say-so by you, then no protection of terms of agreement for them.

More importantly -- if it's the options you're concerned about, I find that it works well on me when people play nice. Just say what's on your mind. "You know, I've really enjoyed working here, and hope you think I've made a meaningful contribution. I'm not leaving because of any problem with the company, but, as you know, because of external circumstances. I was wondering if there's any chance that I could get some acceleration for some of my unvested options. I really think a lot of the company, and understand if you can't, but I'd sure appreciate it if you could look into it."

You could, even, start this conversation following a conversation about how glad you were that you could help with the photos -- just don't get too cute about it, or it may look like a threat. That's up for you to decide based on the circumstance, what you know about the people involved, etc.

longtime · Feb 20, 2002

"right of publicity" only protects celebrities' images, generally.

NVR FNSH · Feb 20, 2002

Yeah, what LT said.

Lawyers are good for something sometimes:debil: I am kidding, really. I just couldn't resist.

How you feeling these days LT? Wish you would have been able to make it to Reno.

Brian

bulldog71169 · Feb 20, 2002

I ran my own Photoagraphy business a few years back and I could take all the pics I wanted but needed to have releases signed to publish anything or even publicly display them.

Now... working with the associated press... learned that the release is not needed if the pics were taken for journalistic purposes.

Hope that helps,
Matt

a454elk · Feb 21, 2002

All this reminds me of the episode in Seinfeld where Elaine gets her christmas photo taken and she sends it to everyone. There was just a bit MORE in the picture than she would have liked! You could run around and snap photos of your employers and post THEM on the Net!
Elk

JuliusPleaser · Feb 21, 2002

I've been in a few ad campaigns, and the photographer ALWAYS asked me to sign a release. I always got paid, too. I'm delivering a race car to Montgomery tonight with one of my friends (who just happens to be a pro photographer). I'll get his take on it, but you may be SOL since you orally agreed to participate.

3K sounds like a bit much for a model. I know you're worth more, but I usually make $200-$400 per shoot. :)

slacker00 · Feb 21, 2002

I am a photographer and I cannot publish any photos WITHOUT a signed model release. Under ANY circumstances.

Now. Since this was done by your employer these photos might be covered under other employee agreements you may have signed when you were hired. You may want to check into that.

It sounds like the "some contract" they want you to sign is the release. I would say they NEED this to use the pictures and you certainly might have some leverage as far as your stock problem is concerned.

gospeedracer · Feb 21, 2002

They just handed me the contract today. The only thing that is kind of stange to me is that this authorizes them to use my images for anything they want if they want to, forever.
I know he was just joking but when the guy came in, handed me the contract and said it authorizes them to use the image even if the website changes to "the lesbian network" or something like that, I decided to read the contract thoroughly. :confused:
Maybe I'm just being uptight but I would prefer it if they could only use it for this particular product only. I wonder if I can sign it with this stipulation.

NVR FNSH · Feb 21, 2002

uh, don't sign it.....

Have you talked to your boss about the options? LT's advice was spot on IMO.

I'm disappointed Speedy - not even a single pfft about my Sahara pants comment:think

Brian

gospeedracer · Feb 21, 2002

Originally posted by NVR FNSH
LT's advice was spot on IMO.

Ya, I know. That's what I'm going to do.

I'm disappointed Speedy - not even a single pfft about my Sahara pants comment

That's because I've gotten so good at ignoring you. :p

LoriKTM · Feb 21, 2002

Well, since you have the contract, take it to an appropriate legal person. I would bet that you can make line-item changes, just like you do in Real Estate contracts, etc. Then, both parties can sign off on the amended version.

VintageDirt · Feb 21, 2002

Originally posted by NVR FNSH
Who needs geeky tech support pictures when I've ridden behind GSR in her Saharas

She let you wear them?!:eek:

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