Will The 2 Stroke Return?

whenfoxforks-ruled · Jan 17, 2009

And is everyone up on K. Keylon. He is contesting the SX class tonight again, on a CR250!

sharky243 · Jan 17, 2009

Competition bikes don't have to be tested for emissions after they have been sold to the consumer. However, in order for the manufacturers to sell them or import them, they must meet certain emission standards that are enforced by the EPA or CARB. This goes for every gasoline or diesel powered engine across the board, competition or not. It also goes by CC's. There are different standards for engines based on their cc's. Anything over 1000 cc's has to follow automotive emission rules. You're right tho, it is B.S. The government should go after the real polluters like the chemical plants, and others. But the government makes too many tax dollars of these guys so they won't go after them. I know so much about the stupid emission laws because I am a small engine technician and I have to keep going to school to upgrade on all the rules.

ericz103 · Jan 18, 2009

Will the 2 stroke return to how it was, no. Pneumatic valve train 4 strokes or electric will be the next BIG thing.

Got any good links? When I was into cars a while back ago I think BMW had came pretty far with electronic valves...

Deadohiosky39 · Jan 18, 2009

I think he was talking about a fully electric bike like this but i could be wrong:
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/video_player.shtml?vid=760861
http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2008/10/ktm-presents-electric-enduro.html

SVTMc-G · Jan 18, 2009

I've never rode a big 4stroke. Ya know though...there's just something about that 2stroke sound and smell that a 4stroke can never satisfy. it's that thing you fell in love with when you were a kid. I remember the first time I heard a dirtbike. My neighbor came FLYING out of his backyard on his suzuki...I thought that was the COOLEST sound ever!(next to a cammed out 68 camaro with a 396 of course!)2stroke sound is the epidomy of dirtbike! maybe I'm just old-school?hahaha I plan on building a smoker collection over the next 5 years. May have to have a 500 next!...then an 80 for fun!haha...then a 125....aaahhhhh. I just love dirtbikes

SMMWest · Jan 18, 2009

SVTMc-G said:
I'm just old-school?hahaha I plan on building a smoker collection over the next 5 years. May have to have a 500 next!...then an 80 for fun!haha...then a 125....aaahhhhh. I just love dirtbikes

I have that same goal. I have a 1985 Honda CR125 that I am currently making into a Ron Lechien replica (it's breaking the bank), then I want a 1992 Yamaha WR500, then a 1992 Yamaha YZ250 and then finally a 1986 Suzuki RM80 that I will make into a R&D Jimmy Gaddis/Buddy Antunez replica. :coocoo:

2strokesrock · Jan 18, 2009

Brraaaap! an explosion of adreniline hits you,the front end lifts,the bike squirms under exceliration, the bike is screaming your fingers grip the clutch..you shift,I new burst of adreniline hits you..a smile crosses your face :) and you remember why you ride.

Deadohiosky39 · Jan 18, 2009

2strokesrock said:
exceliration

That has to be the most interesting spelling I've ever seen. :nener:

SIKSPAK777 · Jan 18, 2009

Will 2 strokes return? Lets all hope so! It will be a sad sad day when you are not able to purchase a new 2 stroke!!! All i can figure is Yamaha and KTM have to be making out good since the die hards two stroke lovers are all flocking to there dealerships!

2strokesrock · Jan 18, 2009

Deadohiosky39 said:
That has to be the most interesting spelling I've ever seen. :nener:

sorry, I new it was wrong i just could not get it right, no matter how I typed it.

Matt90GT · Jan 18, 2009

sharky243 said:
The true reason that 2-strokes are being phased out, is because of emissions. The rules are getting tougher for the manufacturers to be able to keep building them. EPA and CARB are trying to get 2-strokes completely baned because they don't run clean enough to meet their rules. As far as media coverage, the manufacturers tell the factory sponsored teams what bikes they are to ride, and that is why you see 90% 4-strokes in the races. The only 2-strokes you still see are usually just privateers who are mostly riding on their own buck. I too still love 2-strokes, and will always ride one. I also have a thumper, and to compare the two of them, I think the 2-stroke is a funner ride, because you have to work a bit more to ride one. 4-strokes tend to be a bit easier to ride, and I find myself getting "lazy" on the thumper and not having as much fun. Having said that, I love them both.

It is not about emissions. Do some research on Evinrude Etec motors:

http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/

That will show you a 2 stroke has lower emissions than a 4 stroke.

ericz103 · Jan 18, 2009

An E_tec direct injection outboard boat motor is alot different aka cleaner then a dirtbike motor.
I'm pretty sure our 2smokers put out worse emissions overall(there are different pollutants to consider) then a 4 stroke bike. But yea I agree its mainly not an emissions deal.

250girl · Jan 18, 2009

I think that as long as parts are available, 2-strokes will live. My father and most of his friends are mechanics. The day my father has to take his bike(or truck) to a shop to get it fixed, is they day he's gonna keel over dead. Or maybe when hell freezes over. Most of these men will not own a new 4-stroke simply because they are such an expensive pain to rebuild. Most of the people I know who do own them have all the rebuilding done at the dealership. Bike Manufacturers are doing exactly what the vehicle manufacturers are doing, slowly choking out the backyard mechanics. Making it so that you have to have it done at the dealership. And I don't think thats going to go over as well as the maufacturers have planned.

I don't know about the sales of brand new 2-strokes will be affected. But I am sure that the market for 2-strokes will always remain. They're fast, fun, do-it-yourself bikes and that is what will keep them alive. In my opinion anyways.

supermoto_junkie · Jan 18, 2009

ill always be for 2 strokes... more power,that nice hard hitting powerband,that awesome sound,lightweight.EPA can kiss my ass lol ill bet 2 strokes dont even contribute to 1% of pollution think about germany, they have mostly diesal vehicles and look at all of the truckers with all of their diesal smoke that travel across the country and airplanes burn leaded fuel...think about it, no more chainsaws,weed wackers,most lawnmowers, and rc cars.

James · Jan 19, 2009

Tom68 said:
Wasn't any different in '84 grab some old mag's and you'll see what I mean. Biggest problem for 2 strokes is how good the 4 strokes are now.

The issues were the same, the numbers are much different.
To say it "wasn't any different" is an over-simplification.

I was talking about the industry as a whole, not 2 vs 4.

biglou · Jan 19, 2009

Another thing to consider: I am amazed at the number of folks who think the new 4-strokes are equivalent to XR's when it comes to engines. I've had non-racing type riding buddies say to me, "You just change the oil once in a while, right?"

Dealers love those guys, lol!

SVTMc-G · Jan 19, 2009

biglou said:
Another thing to consider: I am amazed at the number of folks who think the new 4-strokes are equivalent to XR's when it comes to engines. I've had non-racing type riding buddies say to me, "You just change the oil once in a while, right?"

Dealers love those guys, lol!

Those would be the guys that ignore the maintanence schedule of their bike. can you say blown up motor? ouch :bang:

Kmelthratter · Jan 23, 2009

I was talking to a partner of Renielle boats, he was telling me about how new 4 stroke boats would have to have cats. He was laughing saying that a 2-stroke jet-ski will put out more pollution in a day than a carbed 4 stroke boat will in an entire season. Burning oil is just going to cause a high level of nasty emissions. That said I love my old 550sx stand up and my CR125. I grew up 2 strokes and still love their crappy powerband! In reality its becoming obsolete, unless they can get a contained oil system and FI on 2 stroke bikes I just don't see it being anything but a niche market.
There is so much room for improvement on 4 strokes, and little on a 2. BTW I drive a Honda S2000 which is a 9k rpm 2.0 Liter 240hp Normally Aspirated 4 cylinder. Break it down per cylinder and that is 60hp for 500cc on a motor that will happily do 200-250k miles with regular abuse. This is with CA emissions, a perfectly quiet exhaust and intake, with a cat, with aggressive breathing and tuning it would be more like 255hp. There are race versions with well over 300hp NA.Just wait till the CRF's have a variable valve timing head (which has proven to be dead reliable), that is major reason why my car's motor has such a high hp/liter ratio. Electronic valves won't happen for a while, they consume far too much electricity.

Agitator · Jan 27, 2009

I think the only thing 2 strokes have going for them as far as marketability in a realistic sense is COST.

If the market continues on the down swing for a while longer, people will most likely stay away from purchasing a hi maintenance 4 stroke. It's not initial cost, it's the costly rebuilds and dropped valves. Don't forget all those valve adjustments and timing chain replacements.

I own both thumper and 2 stroke. Both have their place. I love my 2 stroke powerband, sound, smell, ease of maintenance, etc...

The only way 2 strokes would become good sellers again would be if people could not afford the 4 strokes on a large scale. I would be surprised if that happened in a big enough way to change the way things are going.

gwcrim · Jan 27, 2009

Seems to me there's a market niche that needs served. Two strokes race bikes are inexpensive to keep running so the average spode had no issues buying and maintaining a fast high performance bike with state of the art suspension. New 4 stroke race bikes need a lot more attention and are more expensive to fix when they grenade.

What is needed (IMO) is a detuned MX bike. One that you can treat like an XR250 maintenance wise, but with a more zip and REAL suspension. Most currently available "trail" bikes are sort of weak for the guy who used to buy a 3-4 year old 250 2 stroke for play riding.

I'd could see buying an electric start 450 woods bike with say 80% of the power of a 450 race bike and all the good suspension parts. But maybe that's just me.

XRpredator · Jan 27, 2009

gwcrim said:
What is needed (IMO) is a detuned MX bike. One that you can treat like an XR250 maintenance wise, but with a more zip and REAL suspension. Most currently available "trail" bikes are sort of weak for the guy who used to buy a 3-4 year old 250 2 stroke for play riding.

couldn't agree more, Crim.

I'd love to just take a modern frame and stuff an XR250 or 400 engine it it for a funbike. I think there's an untapped market out there of people who don't really want or need the high-zoot engine, but want the high-zoot suspension.

_JOE_ · Jan 27, 2009

XRpredator said:
couldn't agree more, Crim.

I'd love to just take a modern frame and stuff an XR250 or 400 engine it it for a funbike. I think there's an untapped market out there of people who don't really want or need the high-zoot engine, but want the high-zoot suspension.

OOOOOHHHHHH AJ!!! Where do those stock 400ex engines go when you build the srx250? Stuff one of those in a crf250 chassis. That would be cool. :cool:

flyingfuzzball · Jan 27, 2009

XRpredator said:
I'd love to just take a modern frame and stuff an XR250 or 400 engine it it for a funbike. I think there's an untapped market out there of people who don't really want or need the high-zoot engine, but want the high-zoot suspension.

me and my dad were actually thinking about doing something like that cuz my dad doesnt like the high torque of a modern thumper.

whenfoxforks-ruled · Jan 27, 2009

XRpredator said:
couldn't agree more, Crim.

I'd love to just take a modern frame and stuff an XR250 or 400 engine it it for a funbike. I think there's an untapped market out there of people who don't really want or need the high-zoot engine, but want the high-zoot suspension.

Am I seeing this? Pred on about a 2 stroke, in a positive manner? Surely the world is ending!

jstlovtofish · Jan 29, 2009

All I gotta say is I love my smoker. :)

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