Okiewan

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Dec 31, 1969
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The suspect was "sniping" at the victims with a SKS assault-style rifle, Zeigle said. He was "chasing after them and killing them," he said.
They said the whacko was in full cammo as well... not exactly hunter's garb.
 

Vampyrz

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Oct 21, 2004
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I'm surprised this hasn't happened already. I've seen deer stands burned and torn down by other hunters, and some pretty heated arguments over hunting rights on public land.

My understanding is that this incident took place on private property. The individual responsible for the shootings obviously had no business being there, and had complete lack of respect for others property and lives.

Just call me Captain Obvious
 

kmccune

2-Strokes forever
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I'm speechless....
 

KC10Chief

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Oct 10, 2004
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Pretty senseless. There's some real nutjob hunters out there. A couple years ago, I was out duck hunting at Ft. Cobb lake in SW Oklahoma. I was by myself and arrived about 4:30 am and started setting my decoys up and my blind. I was all set by about 5:15am. About 5:30, a boat pulls up across the cove from me and a couple of guys start throwing decoys out. I whistled and flashed my light at them to let them know I was there and most people would leave. But these guys flashed back and kept on setting up. I was pretty pissed but hunted anyways with these idiots across the cove from me. About 10am, neither of us had had any luck and they started packing up. Once they were done, they started their boat up and headed my way. They stopped about 50 feet out and one dude yells "Hey, you should know not to set up across from other hunters"! I was thinking WTF?!? I said "I was here an hour before you guys were"! He yells back "Yeah, but we had this spot picked out yesterday"! I asked him how I was supposed to know he had that spot picked out and he just asked me "How would you like it if I just came over there and whipped your damn ass"? I asked him how he would like getting shot and they finally left. Some people have no sense of reason. Matt
 

oldguy

Always Broken
Dec 26, 1999
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I heard that on the radio on the way home but very little info at that time. It is scary because we all know that 99.9% of the hunters are normal everyday people but when thwere are over 300,000 in the woods that 1/10% adds up :bang: . I always worried more when tracking a nice buck that was wounded towards a road or another property because I figured that a wacko would beat me to it and claim it. I was always told by my dad and I have passed it on to Eric there isn't any deer worth fighting over.
We had an incident 5 or so years ago where dad hit a nice 4 point (yeah pred that is both sides counted :joke: ) and it went about 1/2 mile, when I got to it 2 guys had it tagged and gutted but had never even shot at it. I told them I had been tracking it but they informed me they were keeping it. My answer was congrats and I left. Since my dad still had his tag left he continued hunting and later that morning got a nice 11 point.
Normally where we hunt it is very rare to see anyone else in the woods but a couple times I have had an obviously wounded deer wander into range and I have finished them off and field dressed them- 2x they were claimed by the guy that shot them 1 wasn't so I tagged it at the end of the day. I have also tracked 2 deer that I wounded into the adjoining property and both times when I got there they were dressed (not the way Gomer prefers his to be dressed :yikes: ) and waiting for a tag.
As I say 99.9% of the hunters are great guys ,not all so safe but normal. I had a LT at work who refused to deerhunt because as he said "I was wounded 2X in VietNam and at most we had 50,000 in the fields at once. No way I am going into the woods with 3000,000 armed guys out there"
 

mx547

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KC10Chief said:
and he just asked me "How would you like it if I just came over there and whipped your damn ass"?

i didn't know that roy d. mercer duck hunted. ;)
 

Offroadr

Ready to bang some trees!
Jan 4, 2000
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I seen this..all I could say was WTF???

sick people!
 

bsmith

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So far this guy does not sound like a Hunter, I think he went Postal and took his frustrations out on the first hunting party he could find :(

I used to be an avid hunter, but am just disgusted at todays "hunters". In the National forest it's rush hour from dusk tell dawn. People don't get out of the SUV and/or will not stop riding their ATV everywhere. A couple of my favorite ridges to hunt now have Quad trails down them. Hunting has turned into the Lazy mans sport! Thanks Polaris.

Locally I'm 20 minutes from town where I have a couple farms that I can hunt, about 2000 acres, yet their are 2 peices of state land, each 90 acres, yet people will not stop at the fence. They feel it's their God given right to cross the fence and hunt in between the 2 peices of stateline. The last few years I spent more time chasing tresspassers and poachers then I did hunting.

I hunt to get out and enjoy, not be stressed out.

So now I will wait unitl the last possible week, get a Muzzleloader and go hunting when it's too cold for peeps to ride the ATV, most warm weather hunters stay home, and the Modern season is over.

This year I have been cutting wood on the weekends by the stateland just to annoy them ;) I've seen 3 different 3 point Mule Deer(That's 3 points per side) and a couple small 3 point whitetails. They walk right by when I'm busy cutting wood, best camoflauge money could buy!!
 

XRpredator

AssClown SuperPowers
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Aug 2, 2000
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Okiewan said:
. . . was in full cammo as well... not exactly hunter's garb.
its not?

in the wilds of Idaho, you're not required to wear the "orange". It is recommended that you have 144 square inches of the blaze orange (about the size of a hat), but not required. I'll slip some on as I'm walking, but if I'm stationary, she's full camo.

Not that I'm excusing the wacko. If you could kill the dude 5 times over, I'd be all for it.
 

gospeedracer

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"When you're hunting, you don't expect somebody to try to shoot you and murder you," Wagner said.

Funny, I was just thinking that the deer probably feel the same way when they're out grazing! :p

99.9% Normal??? Riiiiiiight. :debil:

I prefer to do my hunting at the grocery store. You should see me sneak up on a Boca burger. They never know what hit them. :laugh:
 

oldguy

Always Broken
Dec 26, 1999
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Pred in Wis it is required that during the gun season you have at least 50% above the waist front and back in blaze orange. We have a bit higher density / sq mi here of hunters then you out west.
Speedy I have heard that you do scare quite a few of the meateaters as you are stalking that boca burger in the wilds of the local food stores. Something about the intensity in your eyes.
 

Chili

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Apr 9, 2002
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I don't hunt deer but if I'm out hunting upland after rifle season is open for deer I look like the great friggen pumpkin out there.
 

bsmith

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Washington State requires around 400sq inches of Hunters orange During modern firearm. Minimum size is equal to a vest.
Muzzleloader and Bow season their is no requirments for orange.

Speedy, I don't think America was discovered by vegatarians. :nener: and besides cars kill more Deer per year then Hunters do. If it wasn't for hunters your insurance rates would be even higher.
Unfortunalty just like off Road dirtbikes, a few bad apples ruin it for the majority. You don't here on the news that average Joe followed the rules and everything went well. You only here the bad news.
 

Treejumper

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Thats a shame!

In PA we are required to wear 100sq inches on the head and 250sq inches on the body for deer season. During Archery season you have to hang 100sq inches of orange within 10 feet of you and wear it in and out but not while in the stand. Our first day of rifle is next monday.
 

JPIVEY

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gospeedracer said:
"
You should see me sneak up on a Boca burger. They never know what hit them. :laugh:


I tried to sneak up on a pork chop once, I scared it into the poultry section, when I tried to claim it, some little Blue haired lady threatened me with a Jimmy Dean sausage, it was ugly, I ended up claimbing on top of the cooler box so the next time the pork chop appeared from behind the wall, I did a cannon ball from about 10' right into the meat section, little sucker never knew what happened.
 

Papakeith

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Aug 31, 2000
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I'll tell you what, it'll make me think twice now before walking over to hunters who are on my family's property illegally. When I first moved to the farm, I didn't really know who my father had given permission to or not. More than once, I just walked up to them and requested their papers. If they had none, I politely asked them to leave. Never had a problem(thankfully). If there's a next time, I'll either be armed, or just call DEM, and let them deal with it.
 

kmccune

2-Strokes forever
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The 6th one out of 8 shot, died last night.
 

Treejumper

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Papakeith said:
I'll tell you what, it'll make me think twice now before walking over to hunters who are on my family's property illegally.


Yep PK, you never know anymore. We dont have alot of problems with people on our farm except the neighbor and he's ok. That's why i always carry my pistol when out in the woods. I pray i never need it but its nice to have on you just incase. Small and light enough that its not a pain to carry. I wear mine on a belt holister so people can see it before they get near me.
 

oldguy

Always Broken
Dec 26, 1999
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It is getting crazy with the Milwaukee news outlets :think: . they have already started placing the blame on the SKS rifle and seem to ignore the shooter. He is just misunderstood but in reality (according to them :pissed: ) it was the fact that he had an "ASSAULT" rifle that caused the incident. They have had on every newscast "experts :joke: " who tell us that this rifle is not a proper hunting rifle because it is cheap and an assault weapon. Dam I have fun shooting mine altho I don't hunt with it, if it was the only one I had (or could afford ) I wouldn't hesitate to hunt with it.
They are also boasting about the fact that peolpe in that area are to afraid to go into the woods anymore because they don't feel it is safe :bang: . I finally heard a game warden from that area that said tis was not true but that many were shifting their hunts into other areas because of all the coomotion caused by news helicopters and trucks cruising the area looking for hunters to interview. He also mentioned that many hunters moved so as to not interfere with law enforcement gatherring evidence.
Supposedly the shooter is saying that the victims were yelling and calling him names and then they shot at him first. This is pretty amazing since the first 2 to confront him were unarmed and of the 8 victims it sounds like only 2 maybe 3 were armed at all. Unfortunately Wisconsin is to gutless to have Capital punishment- any chance we can ship him down to Texas for a proper trial and punishment? :clue:
 

Chili

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Apr 9, 2002
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Hmmm won't direct link so here is a cut and paste:

HAYWARD, WIS. -- In a chilling first glimpse into what may have possessed deer hunter Chai Soua Vang to gun down six other hunters, Vang told investigators that one of them shot first after they surrounded him and derided him with racial slurs.

Just before making startling admissions of how he went about killing the five men and one woman, Vang told investigators in a document released Tuesday that the victims used an expletive and called him "gook" and "chink." The 36-year-old St. Paul man also said that one of them fired a shot as Vang tried to walk away, setting off his violent response.

"Vang stated that [he] shot two times at the man with the rifle, and the man dropped to the ground," according to a probable cause statement filed in Sawyer County Circuit Court. "Vang saw all the others run towards the ATVs, and Vang continued to shoot. Vang stated that two or three more men fell to the ground."

Vang, who has not been formally charged, remains in custody.

Circuit Judge Norman Yackel set bail at $2.5 million on Tuesday after finding probable cause that Vang committed six counts of first-degree intentional homicide and two counts of attempted first-degree homicide.

Vang's account conflicts with earlier police accounts -- based on interviews with survivors -- that he was the first to fire. And friends of those killed said the men would not have done the things Vang alleges.

"That's way out of character for them," said Steve Scheurer of Rice Lake, Wis., a friend of Terry Willers, who was wounded, and Robert Crotteau, who died.

Willers and Crotteau owned the property where the carnage erupted Sunday afternoon, and Willers told Vang to leave after finding him in a deer stand. Vang is "trying to saying anything he can to get out of it," Scheurer said.

Despite Vang's allegations that he was provoked, he also admits shooting several hunters who were unarmed.

Vang, who earned a sharpshooting badge while serving in the California National Guard from 1989 to 1995, said one man was running and yelling, "Help me, help me," when Vang caught up to him and shot him in the back, leaving him groaning and dying on the leaf-strewn forest floor.

Police believe that victim was Joey Crotteau, 20, whose body was found near that of his father, Robert, 42.

When two hunters, one of whom had a gun, sped to the scene on an ATV, apparently trying help their friends, Vang said, he shot them off the vehicle, killing them. Authorities identified them as Allan Laski, 43, and Jessica Willers, 27.

When one of the victims he shot at stood up, Vang said he yelled, "You're not dead yet?" and fired again.

Vang made those statements Monday morning after telling investigators that he wanted to speak to them without first talking with an attorney.

Sawyer County Sheriff James Meier, who had downplayed race as a factor in the deaths at a news conference Monday, said he was not aware of Vang's statements until after the 1 p.m. news conference.

Late Tuesday afternoon, Vang agreed to be represented by several public defenders from Spooner, Wis. One of them, James McLaughlin, said the sheriff's office denied access to Vang until late Tuesday afternoon.

Meier confirmed that, saying Vang hadn't requested an attorney. "He has to ask for a public defender," the sheriff said.

The Wisconsin attorney general's office is handling the case at the request of the Sawyer County attorney. Vang's first court appearance is scheduled for 8:30 a.m. Tuesday.

Friction feared

Vang's accusations could heighten friction between the growing number of Hmong immigrants in the area and other hunters. Some of the Hmong hunters say they are harassed and subjected to racism by locals; some locals say too many Hmong hunters trespass on private land and refuse to leave when asked, insisting that it must be posted.

"Hmong hunters may not be as safe hunting," said David Hecker of Hayward, Wis., who is a friend of Robert Crotteau and Terry Willers. "That could become a reality."

Friends of the victims, meanwhile, said Tuesday that they don't believe Vang's allegations about racial epithets.

"I can't believe [Vang] is trying to blame it on them," said Rich Gravitt, 21. "I've known Al [Laski] and Bob and Joe [Crotteau] forever, and they would never surround and threaten a person who was just in a deer stand. They would not call him derogatory names."

Jim Klang, an employee at Rice Lake Auto Parts who knew the hunters as friends and customers, said they were "smart and safety-conscious" and would never point a rifle at someone. "Maybe there was a heated argument," he said, and someone may have used harsh language.

"But all of us have been called names," he added. "All of us have been picked on. No matter what happened or what was said, it doesn't excuse murder."

Tom Kamrath, owner of Surplus Outlet on Rice Lake's Main Street, knew the hunters mostly as customers.

"I can't picture that kind of behavior with these guys," he said. "I can't picture any of them getting to that point without being provoked. They have too much to lose. They're not reckless people."

Hecker said that Willers especially wouldn't have said anything in anger toward Vang.

"He was just a calm, steady guy, whereas Bob was a little more hyper," said Hecker, who was one of several people who showed up at the courthouse Tuesday hoping to see Vang.

"I'd like to look at him and see his face and maybe get a sense of what kind of person he is," said Hecker, who wore a T-shirt advertising Crotteau's business, R&J Concrete. "Is he sorry at all for what he did?"

Vang was born in Laos and emigrated to Stockton, Calif. around 1980 before moving to Minnesota about four years ago. After a few years in Minneapolis, he moved to St. Paul in 2003.

Lt. Col. Doug Hart, public affairs director for the National Guard in Sacramento, said Vang enlisted in the Army when he was 21. After six years, he was discharged from the California National Guard and assigned to the Army Reserves.

Looking for others

Meier, meanwhile, said he is still looking for two hunters who are believed to have been with Vang when the shootings occurred. He said investigators spent much of Tuesday talking with survivors of the Willers and Crotteau hunting party.

He said investigators found just one gun left at the crime scene, though Vang claimed that at least two people had firearms. Meier also said Vang is being kept apart from other prisoners and cited safety reasons for why Vang did not appear in court, just across the street from the jail.

Meier said the autopsy on the last shooting victim was taking place on Tuesday.

Meanwhile, one of the shooting victims, Lauren Hesebeck, was released from a hospital in Rice Lake Tuesday.

Terry Willers, 47, who also was shot during the spree, remained hospitalized in fair condition Tuesday evening at St. Joseph's Hospital in Marshfield, Wis.
 
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