YZ 250 or KTM 200 EXC for woods?

[Detonator]

My trusty YZ 125 woods conversion got stolen, and I'm in the hunt for a new ride. I race Vet class, and am monstrously huge (5'5" and just shy of 120 lbs...and no, I don't race in the Kentucky Derby).
My last bike was great, but it took some doing to get it there (revalve, guards, O-ring chain, flywheel weight, waterproofing), and although I could turn good lap times when alone, it just didn't have enough oomph to make clean passes during harescrambles and it required a lot of shifting.
Due to personal preference and the previously enjoyed bike market, I'm down to a choice between a YZ 250 ('00 to'04) or a KTM 200 EXC ('98 to '04). The YZ will definitely require a revalve, but the '04 200 EXC I rode seemed to be in the ballpark. YZ will need a flywheel weight.

For you woods-riding types, am I better off doing another woods conversion MX, or going Orange? Any model years that aren't good candidates for a woods bike? Please don't recommend a KDX...YZ 250 or 200 EXC only. Many thanks!

 

[BBdotcom]

HI Detonator, Not that i know either of the two you want
but my buddies know abit about them and when i asked about KTM's they said they are very good bikes right up there with Honda's :p
all kidding aside my buddy thats a honda lover wishes he could afford a KTM
Hope you get either soon, and we can hook up for a ride
Have a good one
Tom

 

[Detonator]

Thanks, Tom. I wish I could afford a KTM, too! When you're doing a woods conversion on an MX bike, it takes an extra $1,000 to $1,500 to get it right, so it gets into the KTM price bracket (unfortunately). I may not be buying a bike for a bit, since the snow's gonna fly soon, but as soon as the insurance gets settled, I'll make my move. If we can't hook up for a ride, we can at least get our Martin guitars together and play some tunes!

 

[Detonator]

To the top...

 

[biglou]

I had an 01 250MXC and loved it in the woods. I raced D Class MX on it a few times also. Heck, it's the bike Stan Flemmings won the C-Class MX race at DirtWeek with this year. They don't make the 250MXC anymore, however. If you can swing it, I'd go for the orange bike. Their woods bikes are pretty impressive, IMO. Lots of bottom end and my MXC would wind out pretty good for fast runs or MX tracks. I'd recommed either the 200 or the 250 EXC. You can take the rear light off the fender, and get a standard number plate for the front if you like the MX look, and it's easy enough to reinstall them when needed.

 

[Kav]

I have a '01 YZ250 and found that it was not a bad woods weapon (save for the desert gearing it had at the time.) It has plenty of bottom-end, and the power delivery is smooth and linier. If it has stock gearing (14/50) I’d change it to 13/51 or so, also while it lugs like it’s nothing, I’d still invest in a fly wheel weight.

 

[Detonator]

Lou, I've had a number of people tell me that the 250 MXC (or EXC) is actually smoother and less abrupt than the 200. My test ride on the 200 confirmed that it's a very strong performer (not KDX smooth, though), which suits my cut and thrust riding style...however, I'm going to wheedle a ride on a 250 EXC or SX tomorrow before race-time to see if it's a contender, too. The top 2 riders in our association are running 250 SX's with some woods mods. My thinking was that if I go 250, it'll require softer springs fore and aft, which means more $.

Kav, the gearing is a great suggestion, same thing I did with my old YZ 125. Do you think with my weight that gearing down is still a good idea; what I wanted to achieve was a bike that would require less shifting. Ideally, I'd love a wide-ratio trans on a YZ (granny "walking" gear, then a short 2nd, long 3rd). There will definitely be a 13 oz flywheel on it...otherwise it'll be all wheelspin and loop-outs!

 

[Kav]

Kav, the gearing is a great suggestion, same thing I did with my old YZ 125. Do you think with my weight that gearing down is still a good idea; what I wanted to achieve was a bike that would require less shifting. Ideally, I'd love a wide-ratio trans on a YZ (granny "walking" gear, then a short 2nd, long 3rd). There will definitely be a 13 oz flywheel on it...otherwise it'll be all wheelspin and loop-outs!

I'm 6'-3" and sub 140 pounds, so I don't think the weight (or lack of it) is going to be much on an issue :laugh: a flywheel weight would be one of the bests mods to do. as far as a wide-ratio tranny in a YZ250 goes, I've heard that some of the gears in the old two-smoke WR (namly first) could be installed into a newer YZ250. But I'm not sure of how true that is.

 

[Detonator]

Lordy, boy...sell your bike and get some good sneakers; you've got a marathoner's body! Okay, now that I know that, what have you done to your suspension to work well with your weight?

My other concern with another YZ is the seat height...not a problem on the track, but in the slow technical stuff I had a tendency to tip over and eat it because I couldn't touch the ground. The KTM is a beautiful 36" and a soft spring rate. We have dead-engine starts in my organization, and the only way I beat others to the first turn is if they cramp up from laughing at my pogo-stick antics trying to balance on the pegs for the kickstart. My best start ever was on a slight downhill...I just stood beside the bike, and when the flag dropped, I ran 5 feet and bump-started. Unfortunately, it's on film.

 

[biglou]

Off topic, but do they let you use a block? We've got lots of people that stand on a block to start, and have a friend or family member clear it as soon as they're off.

About the SX, I've never ridden one, but I've heard that motor is a monster! Might be a little "twitchy" without some mods. For me, I wouldn't buy the SX and then spend money on making it into an MXC/EXC, if that is the case. Also, I've ridden a 200MXC back when I had my 250MXC and found them to be very similar. I was on an MX track though.

 

[Kav]

Lordy, boy...sell your bike and get some good sneakers; you've got a marathoner's body! Okay, now that I know that, what have you done to your suspension to work well with your weight?

LOL, well I can run a consistent sub 6 minute mile... :)

I mainly ride open desert so I haven’t changed anything on the suspension internally save for the oil, but when I was in the woods at DW I softened up every thing from factroy settings to about 8 clicks took out ¾ on the high speed compression, and took out a ton of pre-load out of the rear spring. Stock settings will pogo you through woods in a most unpleasant manner. But it you loosen things up the bike will behave much better. That said I’m planning on replacing the rear spring to something lighter. The forks worked great, but the rear end would buck a little when I picked up the speed. You may have to replace the forks also, but first you’ll have to ride it and go from there (just like any other bike)

The YZ does sit tall. I road a MXC200 (or was it an EXC?) with CR80 bars once and really liked how much closer to the ground it felt. I have dropped my font end in the triple clamps about 5mm, but have not done any other mods like new dog bones or filing the rear subframe mount to drop the rear of the bike.

However it does start very easy for bomb starts… And Lou just said what I was going to ask about using a block, or a center stand.

 

[blanc]

Why dont you get a GasGas ec250....smashing fast woods bike, very smooth, great suspension , simple and reliable with all the mods of the ktm!! Ohh and a mate owns a 01yz250 enduroised and i own the gg, we both choose to ride the gg.

 

[Detonator]

Lou...the block's a great idea, but all my friends race in the same class...and our spousal support is limited to "don't you walk in here with that stinky shirt on...strip outside." You know what I'm saying. I suppose I could bribe some kid in the crowd to remove my stand after takeoff. And gas me up 4th lap. And load the bike when I crap out 2 hours into the race...and revive me...my mind is reeling with possibilities! I'll take a couple of candy bars to the next race.

Kav...at 6'3" why would you even consider lowering the bike? Unless you're 85% upper body with a 28" inseam...quick check...did you ever drag your books to school? I'm the freak of nature, not you! And you're not kidding about stock motocrosser settings being a little firm in the woods...third gear over some off-camber roots and into the grapefruit-sized rocky section will make you want to sell the bike and buy a badminton set. A good one.

Blanc...the GasGas and TM are beautiful, but I'm really budget-minded. We don't have the GG support out here. I've seen some posts from B.C. raving about the bikes, but they're an exotic luxury here in Quebec. KTM's are huge, though...more orange than the big four. That's why the used market is so good for the YZ 250 and KTM 200. There's no doubt that the GasGas would be a great ride.

I appreciate all your help...I've never been conflicted about a bike purchase before, but there are so many excellent choices out there. Notice I didn't even discuss 4 strokes?

 

[Kav]

I'm the freak of nature, not you!

It’s apparent you haven’t met me in person have you? :joke:

All joking aside, what looks good on paper isn’t going to work with every one, and the great thing about bikes is that with a little effort you can change tons of stuff to make it suit you. I really liked the low feel of the KTM that was lowered. I found that I was able to move around on it much easier then the CR250 I was on at the time. Plus I have almost no balance, and very poor coordination. (I’m known for taking soil samples more then any thing else), and because of that I try to keep a low center of gravity. (Being really flexible helps with fitting on the smaller cockpit too.) Also, have you tried to start a bike off camber? Even at 6’3” that can be a pain.

 

[biglou]

There are a lot of great bikes out there today. I can't think of too many that I wouldn't be happy to ride. FWIW, I rode Rooster's 2003 WR250F at DirtWeek and that would be the perfect woods bike for me. I also had a ball riding it at night. That was a surreal experience.

Having owned a kTm, I'd be leaning toward the 200 or 250 EXC. They're just ready to go right out of the box. And worthy of some light MX'ing as well. Plus, the used market is crap lately. There should be a few around at a reasonable price. Might already have some nifty doo-dads on them, too! :cool:

 

[Detonator]

Lou, the KTM's seem to be a good fit for me...I don't know why I'm analyzing this so much. I suppose it's because the YZ conversion is a known commodity to me, and properly set up they are fantastic.

When my buddy got his new 525 EXC last Spring, we spent an hour just looking over the machine, pointing out all the quality parts and engineering common sense that goes into the bike. They are purpose-built woods/offroad bikes, no doubt. His comment was that it seemed that KTM put durability higher on the priority list for the 2 stroke EXC's than the SX models...subtle stuff like a 2 ring piston (longevity) versus a 1 ring (performance). I guess it's fair to say that in the MX world, it boils down to performance and light weight as top priority, and durability is a wonderful side benefit. In the woods, durability and purpose (lights, tank size, wide ration gearing) are higher on the to-do list.
As for the WR, I'd really like to try one that's been well tweaked for woods. I've tried the 250's in stock and YZ'd form, and the 426 stock, and actually chose my 125 over them (yeah, I'm a contrarian). The stock 250 had a motor like vanilla pudding and suspension to match. The 426 engine braking over roots and entering rutted corners raised the adrenaline factor...and both of them felt heavy below 3rd gear. The WR's are the machines I have the least trouble passing in Harescrambles...brake early, cut in tight, and gas. In deep whoops, I wait for the "panic light" to flash, and I hit the gas. But I'm sure Rooster has a dialed-in machine that would make me change my mind. For now, I'll stay with smaller 2 strokes. That said, the 450 and 525 EXC are some nice 4 strokes, just not a viable option for someone of my physique. Or budget.